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New Carbine, New issue (to me)
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Joined: Jul 20 2021
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2021 at 8:31am
today is the day I find out. 
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Points: 1998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2021 at 8:16am
Tricky and suspicious things happen in a guns action, some of which is impossible to see and sometimes leaves one scratching their head.

OP has indicated issues with bolt rotation and extraction. The two issues are surely connected. I have had experience with this very problem. Be it a tight/fouled chamber, short head space or long ammo cases…..if the round is not fully seating in the chamber and offering a minimal amount of clearance between the bolt face and the cartridge base….extraction issues will follow. I think when head space issues are corrected, be it a chamber issue or bolt/cartridge length, the extraction issue will go away.

You can take the assembled bolt in your hand and test the operation of the extractor by hand with a piece of brass and have it function flawlessly. Shoot it in a gun and funny things you cannot see or detect take place.
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35 Whelen View Drop Down
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Points: 178 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 35 Whelen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2021 at 7:15am
Disassemble the bolt then put the bare bolt back in the rifle, then try the same cycling with ammunition. If it works, then there may be a problem with the extractor, if not, then you've eliminated one thing, at least.
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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I use the product you listed above from O’Riley. A little goes a long way, so you don’t need the tub. Don’t get carried away, all you want to do is shine it.

I still probably wouldn’t do anything until I head space it though.

The field gauge is only going to tell you if the head space is too long. In this case, we are dealing with potential short head space, so not having the field gauge is no issue at this point.
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 9:01pm
 https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-1777012-Grinding-Lapping-Compound/dp/B00O542WDK/ref=asc_df_B00O542WDK?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80470624769032&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070153585060&psc=1
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 8:55pm
my field gauge hasn’t even shipped yet… but if my chamber is to “tight” that won’t help me figure anything out anyways will it?
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 8:53pm
 https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/versachem/chemicals---fluids/maintenance-chemicals/grease---lube/valve-grinding-compound/6dcbc935f700/versachem-valve-grinding-compound/ver0/13209

So you took something like this, (the fine grain tube in it) put it on a patch, put on a drill and scrubbed the chamber with it? 

This is uncharted territory for me, so I’m making sure I don’t do anything stupid. 

For good measure, I have my bolt soaking in hoppes tonight as I have my caliper coming tomorrow. 
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Points: 1998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 8:27pm
I know you say the chamber is clean, but I had a problem with a sticky one. I used some fine grain lapping compound on a patch using a drill motor polished the rascal to a mirror finish. It seriously helped.
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 7:33pm
no cigar 
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 7:31pm
well nothing I can see in the extractor spring hole :(
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bonnie View Drop Down
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Points: 89 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

I took the bolt apart when I got it on Friday, and it was HORRIBLE. I am 100% the first person to ever take it apart. The extractor was full of black gunk. I soaked it all in hoppes for a day, and cleaned it out with lent free foam q-tip things I have. I did not replace any parts or springs in the bolt, however. I did change the op rod (recoil)spring though. 


If your bolt was that grungy.....

Clean the chamber with a 9mm bore brush also. A short, flexible rod with the brush from the receiver into the chamber works best.
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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If something is stuck in the plunger spring pocket, it would have been difficult getting a spec spring and plunger to fit I think, but I sure don’t disagree in checking. Take a twist drill and ream the pocket out by hand. While you have the bolt gutted, close a naked bolt by hand on some of that suspect ammo. This takes any extractor issues out of the picture.
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 5:53pm
Okay, I will take it apart when I get back home. I thought I was careful to check for that (I have heard of extractor springs being broke off before) but I will get my headlamp and my jewelers screwdriver to get down in the hole and see if something is there. The bolt is marked "EM-Q" and an undated Rock-Ola barrel are what should be there (based on my research). I guess someone could have tried to "correct it", but i know for a fact that it has been in that configuration since at least 1985 (when I bought it, it came with the original receipt, and it had the spec's on the receipt) and I would doubt someone going through that trouble way back then, but what do I know 
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Points: 2968 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 5:35pm
If the barrel is in fact original to that receiver then I would find it very hard to believe that the chamber is short. Take that QHMC bolt apart again and make sure that there is nothing stuck in the extractor plunger spring hole, (like a piece of broken spring).  Don't like the idea of reaming the chamber unless it is truly necessary and you should not have to unless that barrel has been replaced.
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 5:15pm
Yes, it appears to be original to the receiver. It is an undated Rock-Ola, and the finish matches the rest of the gun. Serial number is 1,881,065
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What barrel is on your QHMC? Does it appear to be original to the receiver? 
Wayne
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Points: 1998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

If it makes any difference, this is a quality hardware, therefore it has the spring tube receiver. 

Shouldn’t matter.

You mentioned above what might could be done if in fact you have a head space issue. A couple of physical things and one maybe a mental thing.

Find a shorter bolt. That will get difficult finding a bolt with the correct makers mark and guessing if it will be shorter when you do. Obviously, you can get any primes bolt that will work and use it as a shooter. The correct Quality can be for looking it.

Have the chamber finish-reamed for your Quality bolt.

The mental option. Find and shoot ammo that you know it will shoot and never use any that you have not checked. Most commercial that I have checked will fall around 1.285-87. The outliers are surely out there. You can learn to measure the cases on unfired brass close enough to be comfortable with doing it.

So…there you go. A replacement bolt, a trip to a Smith (or friend) you can trust to touch-up the chamber, or just watch your ammo.
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 2:55pm
If it makes any difference, this is a quality hardware, therefore it has the spring tube receiver. 
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 10:33am
well that makes me feel better. I have cycled plenty of rounds (safely, of course) and hadn't had the issue. But I primarily shoot usgi/korean surplus ammo, but decided I would shoot up all the commercial ammo I have first (other than my softpoints) and hold on to the surplus for a rainy day. It seems the only commercial ammo that has not given me any issues in the short time (about 7/8 months) I have been shooting and learning about carbines is the Freedom Munitions/LAX ammo. But I will check my firearms headspace first before I arrive at my conclusion. 

Something else that makes me think the firearm may have a bug in it is that my inland shoots the commercial ammo just fine. I am confident with all of your help I can get this figured out.

The bugs I had with my inland when I first got it were Failure to Feeds, and I was able to figure that one out on my own. This one is a new one to me. 
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 10:29am
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

Another aside….the ogive of the bullet can vary among manufactures. Some broader nosed projectiles might be more apt to stick in the rifling. Some shooters have reported their carbine will only feed USGI spec ammo. 

I had issues with the Aguila, and then Armscor. I thought it was all aquila, but then realized the other mag was loaded with armscor. After i noticed that ( I was out of the aguila), i looked through the remaining armscor rounds I had and sure enough, almost every single round has the bullet seated at different depths and the projectiles are 100% more round/fat than the military surplus I compared it against. The rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper for me. 
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