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Armscor Ammo in my ‘43 Inland |
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David Albert 
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Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1005 |
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 Topic: Armscor Ammo in my ‘43 InlandPosted: Mar 23 2022 at 6:09pm |
This is good advice. We Thompson shooters stay away from Armscor ammo altogether due to other quality issues that have been experienced in the past. In fact, during the annual show and shoot of The American Thompson Association, Armscorp ammo is not allowed on the range. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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Rebel92
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Joined: Jul 20 2021 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Status: Offline Points: 541 |
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Posted: Mar 23 2022 at 2:11pm |
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I had this same issue with Armscor. I recently got into reloading, and purchased some bayou bullets, and behold, it has a similar profile and will not chamber correctly into my picky carbines with the tighter actions.
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floydthecat
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Posted: Jun 12 2020 at 4:42pm |
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Having just corrected a feed issue on a carbine...again, I thought I would refresh this topic. The feeding issue topic comes up often across all forums. Before we go to purchasing parts, discounting ammo and grinding on feed ramps, consider the magazine...every time and it's often mentioned as a problem. The round has to be positioned high enough to be stripped out of the magazine and lined-up with the chamber, or hit the feed ramp high enough so they won't hang. If the round is setting too low in the magazine, the bolt will jam it into the receiver just below the feed ramp, then it's hung. All it takes is a slight bending of the lips outward to raise the round high enough to shoot right into the chamber or the upper part of the feed ramp. Not too much at all...trial-n-error. I am talking about a couple of thousandths at the most. Too far and the bolt will hit the feed-lips and hang, or the rounds will pop out of the magazine. If you have a feed issue and holding the magazine up firmly with your hand, a feed-lip adjustment will usually fix that, assuming there is nothing out of order with the catch or magazine assemly. There is a tolerance involved with anything mechanical and there can be a slight difference in trigger housing fitment to the receiver legs.
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MilsurpsUSGI
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 9:05pm |
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I just came upon this thread and also had trouble with a box of Armscor ammo about 15 years ago. I had a round that failed to fire in one of my Inlands and upon checking, found the bolt hadn't fully closed. The case length was way too long. I think there were (2) rounds in the box that were that way.
I bought a bulk pack of BVAC loads a few years later that were loaded with Armscor bullets and they were all in spec as far as OAL and case length, but they had way too much crimp on them. I did some research and found where a guy had an "out of battery" blow up with his carbine using BVAC and I didn't want to take a chance on them. BVAC took them back and replaced them with loads that were completely in spec and properly crimped. Later I had a bulk pack that was loaded for/by Armscor in Montana but did not have Armscor's name on the packaging. The OAL on those was 1.645 +/- .008". I've reloaded a couple boxes using Armscor bullets for my IBM and set them at 1.66"- 1.67" and they worked fine. Since these bullets are anywhere from .015"-.025" shorter than other bullets I've been using, I wanted to seat them with a shorter OAL to approximate the same distance from the mouth of the case to the base of the bullet, in an attempt to not cause a variation in the pressures. I still have several hundred of them left and plan to go to maybe 1.65" on the OAL in the future. Some of the reviews on these bullets have information recommending 1.625" OAL. I've read that the SAAMI spec is 1.625"-1.680". The notes I have show Armscor bullets measuring .655" and you show .645", so maybe they've shortened them up a bit more - possibly the contour has changed a bit, or it seems like the weight would be a bit lighter? It looks like you have it pretty well figured out, but to be on the safe side, I wouldn't crimp more than about .001" and .002" at the most - some don't crimp at all. Others don't, but I always use the #41 Military primers just to play it safe. - Bob |
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Ricci1165
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:55am |
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I have no experience with any of the Armscor ammunition.
Aguilla runs fine in my carbines but best in my experience to date has been the Privi from Serbia. I have fired 2 thousand rounds of this through my beater AO and not one failure, spot on the money and feels like there's more "power" in the their loads when fired. I'll have to break out the chrony and check the speed. The Israeli 110 gr RNSP is a hot little load also. I picked up a case of this ammo from SOG before they went out of business at $15.00 a box shipped....made in 2004
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 24 2020 at 1:12pm |
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Update: I don’t have Quickload or anything, but after doing some figuring using the formulas in Lee#1 about pressure, I’ve determined to seat my component Armscor bullets at 1.620” overall length. That’s the same seating depth as the Hornady bullets seated at 1.645”. It should cause about a 5-6% increase in pressure in the shortened cartridges. I should be good on pressure with a full load of H110, but IMR 4227 can only be loaded to about half way between min and max because of case volume and the possibility of over pressure.
I ran some test loads with the Armscor Bullets seated at 1.620” with 13.3 gr IMR 4227, and they all fed, chambered, and fired perfectly. I’ll still have to use my factory Armscor ammo in the Auto-Ordnance though.
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blackfish
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 2:38pm |
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FWIW I've never had any issues with Armscor's gold bullets either. The only think I dislike about Armscor is the packaging. I mean, come on man!
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 12:09pm |
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I know I should just forget about the Armscor, but it’s like a bug in my brain. I have to know why. Doing some checking I got the following:
Winchester Military COL=1.670”, case length=1.280” Armscor Commercial COL=1.640”, case length=1.280”, bullet height=.645” Remington commercial COL=1.660”, case length=1.280” Aguila commercial COL=1.655”, case length=1.280” Hornady M1 Carbine 110 gr bullet height =.670” My hand loads with Hornady COL=1.680”, case length=1.280-1.285” No problems with anything but the Armscor. It has to be the bullet profile. Perhaps this gun was carried during WWII, but used very little; having a short/tight throat. At any rate, I think the Armscor bullet profile makes it incompatible with this gun. |
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Donnie
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 11:18am |
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I think you should just forget using anymore Armscor ammo and explore a variety of other manufacturers. Life is too short to try to figure out issues with Armscor ammo, assuming this problem doesn't reappear with other ammo.
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W5USMC
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 11:14am |
Yes, you are probably correct, but it never hurts to check it. How about the case length on the armscor? In the picture that floydthecat posted it looks like the actual case on the armscor is longer than the Fiocchi.
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Wayne
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:36am |
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Yes. I went through the whole magazine thing with my Auto-Ordnance. I now have a wide variety of magazines including GI and new Korean made magazines that tend to work better than most new manufacture mags. That’s one of the first things I check now.
These rounds had no problem clearing the magazine, with the feed ramp, or entering the chamber. They simply wouldn’t seat all the way in the chamber, and the bolt wouldn’t close without giving the charging handle a good whack. When I did get them to finally chamber, I couldn’t eject the unfired round easily because it was stuck in the lands of the throat.
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Donnie
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:18am |
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When i get any kind of FTFeed issue in any autoloader, I like to rule out the magazine being a factor. While your narrative would seem to not indicate a magazine problem, have you tried using different magazines?
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:03am |
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I thought about that, but it’s not my issue. When I measured the cartridge length that would fit, I would hand feed into the chamber; bypassing the feed ramp altogether. It probably would increase feed reliability with soft points and half jackets though.
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Charles
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 9:30am |
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Looking at the shape of the round snuggest to me the round doesn't like the feed ramp or visa versa. I had a feeding problem with whatever I used. I found polishing the ramp worked a charm. You do not have to grind it, just polish it. I used a Dremal with a lames wool tip and some jewelers rouges. |
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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floydthecat
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 9:08am |
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I have loaded a gaggle and shot a bunch of 86-grain SP Mauser over 16-grains of H110. My chrono clocks it at 2200+-. Darn good load.
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 8:50am |
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Well,I can always shoot these in my Auto Ordnance. It’ll digest anything. I just wish I could use them in the Inland as well. Armscor ammo is affordable and available. Other brands, not so much right now. And apparently everybody that reloads is loading .30 Carbine right now. I’ve resorted to loading 86 gr .30 Mauser soft point bullets in .30 Carbine cases because of the shortage. Oddly enough, they chamber and shoot just fine.
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floydthecat
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 7:39am |
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Hummm. Armscor on the left, Fiocchi on the right. Fiocchi should work for you as well.  |
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floydthecat
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 6:23am |
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I hate it when I have a gun that is ammo-picky for whatever reason. Never have had a problem with Armscor in any carbine. There just has to be something a little different with the chamber in that carbine, or the projectile itself. I suppose one could have the chamber checked, or just shop for and shoot ammo with the mil-spec profile. I wonder if that particular lot of Armscor has an issue? I plan to go get some out of my stash and compare with some other brands.
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Mr_Flintstone
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Posted: May 21 2020 at 10:04pm |
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I don’t think it’s a headspace issue. If it were, wouldn’t all types of bullets cause a problem?
I used a piece of once fired brass, lightly taper crimped an Armscor bullet colored with a sharpie in the case so that it would move when forced, and chambered it. When I ejected the round, it measured 1.627”, and I could see where the rifling had touched the bullet. When I did the same with a Hornady bullet, the round measured 1.689”, and I could see a faint mark where it touched the rifling.
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Donnie
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Posted: May 21 2020 at 9:22pm |
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Armscor ammo functions and shoots ok in my Inland. But, if it doesnt work for you, there are plenty of other good manufacturers out there.
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Donnie wrote: