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IJ gas block fell off =/ |
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Posted: Feb 09 2020 at 2:01pm |
Hi guys, I'm new to this forum so hopefully I'm posting in the right section. I was at the range yesterday then my carbine stopped ejecting the cases. It was hard to rack the slide back also. I stopped shooting it and when I took it apart the gas block fell out. There was no signs it was every welded around the outside like I've see in pics of others like Universal etc.. There is a copper/brass looking material on the surfaces where the gas block was connected to the barrel. Someone told me it looks like it was silver soldered so maybe I'll just need to have that done again. I think the main probably is that the slide was riding against the gas block which is really a quality issue since that should never happen right? There is enough play in the slide that I can easily get it to impact the corner of the gas block so I'm sure this is what happened. I can fix that but just wondering if anyone had a similar situation and fixed it. I'm not sure how to post pics here but I'll see if I can put the hyperlink here. Hopefully you can click and view the pic from the link but I'd like to get the pic to show in the post. |
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Iver Johnson and Plainfield brazed their blocks on. Did not weld them in place like Universal. I have ran across one mention of a brazed gas block getting knocked off before. It could surely be welded back in place, but all the brass will need to be removed. I have not heard much about Universal blocks being dislodged.
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I wonder if I can go over it with a dremel type tool and a wire wheel. If the wire is steel that should take it off right? It seems like it fits perfectly together so maybe I can clamp it with vice grips and take it to an experienced welder that can do a small bead of welding on both sides. I'll send out a couple messages to some local gun smiths. Thank you Floyd
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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Welcome to the forum, click the below link for some info on IJ's barrels and how the gas piston housings were attached.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ij05.html |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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You’d likely never get it all off without grinding it, but get all you can. A welder knows that brass and melted steel don’t mix, but you should be able to get it clean enough.
A good welder can choose the right technique to put it back together. Like the time I had a bracket break off my Harley in a little town in Nebraska. Only place in town was a muffler shop. He stuck the thing back together and it looked like a mud-dauber built a nest across the crack....wonderful job. I awarded him and his office staff a dozen freshly backed doughnuts from across the street. It looked so good that I never replaced it.
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Charles
Grunt Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I would spend as much time on the phone as necessary to find a machine shop that is proficient at joining metal together. Also, I would check on the internet to see how it is done to acquaint yourself with the procedure so as explain your needs. Good luck.
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thank you, That's a great site. I was reading every page a few weeks back. I think someone rushed building mine since it's missing all the weld/braze/solder around all 4 edges. Literally no sign of anything hold it on other than what was on the inside surface. I followed someone else's advice and cleaned it off with a file. Now it looks ready to be tinned. Jack1028 on another site had a universal that came off but he had it welded on. It was a different set up. I should be fine silver soldering. I found a silver sold kit on amazon with 6% silver so even more than the 4% on Brownells but only half an ounce. I'll probably go over the edges more so it can take a nice amount of solder around all 4 sides and hold on. He recommended putting something in the gas hole so I don't screw up and seal it. Clay is probably good for that. I was going to try to take out the gas cylinder thing that pops out. |
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blackfish
On Point Joined: Mar 30 2016 Location: 999-0 Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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You should read about brazing/soldering before you diy. You don't want to apply it "thickly", that's NOT how you get joint strength but joint weakness. A brazed joint is VERY STRONG when properly formed. You want the mating surfaces to fit together PERFECTLY over their entire contact. Last thing you want is to fill the gaps with braze
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Yes, I only plan on tinning the inside surface and prepping out outer edges so that the braze will take. There appears to be no gaps at all. The inside surface seems to be perfectly machined flat. The guy giving me advice said don't clamp the gas block to the barrel but let it sit on it's own. I'll have to ask an expert if that's the case. I picture it wanting to slide side to side with the slightest touch. My concern is even if I tin the inside surface once it hardens I don't see it rising to hot enough to melt the surfaces to each other unless they are closer to the outside but maybe that is what it is and it's really the outside silver solder and a little just inside that will be doing the holding on
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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It's not uncommon for the slide to contact the side of the gas cylinder. Even when they're slimmer profile ones on GI Carbines. But as you allude to, it's also not common. Looks to me that you'll achieve a good result putting it back on. I'd be careful about fouling the gas port and possibly bore by using too much. The port can be reamed out but I don't know about the bore.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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After cleaning off the old silver solder and just a tiny tiny bit of the edge of the gas block it looks like it clears it fine. Yesterday when I would set it together it would impact the edge of the gas block with just playing with the play of the slide. I imagine the right vibration at the right time and bam it knocked it off. I'm sure it was something caused at the factory since it was missing all brazing around the outside and probably just a tiny bit too much on the inside surfaces. Even now it would still be rubbing if I hadn't take an few hundreths off. Hopefully I didn't compromise the gas block too much =/ Forgot to mention I think I figured a good way to keep the gas port from clogging. All 3 holes line up perfectly from the barrel into the block and out of the block. The IJ has an external hole to vent excess gas and it looks like the same drill bit went through all three. I can put a drill bit in all 3 and it holds the gas block perfectly so I can do the exterior brazing and it won't fall off. I had to remove the piston but that came off easily with an open end wrench. Hopefully tinning won't get it much higher. |
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Lightning330
On Point Joined: Aug 22 2018 Location: Page, AZ 86040 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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I have seen the gas blocks break on the Gen 2 welded Universals at times. Most Gen 3 were brazed and I hear it was even more common. A good friend had one let go on his Gen 2 and it is posted with our site. All was repaired and up and running once again from last I heard. I have a Gen 2 also and it never let loose, but with foresight after my friends let loose, I had it v'd and re-welded as precaution. I do believe repairs can be made to your Iver Johnson if done correctly as others mention. Edited by sleeplessnashadow - Dec 21 2023 at 6:47pm |
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I ordered some silver solder on ebay and put it back on with a lot more material and took it shooting. It held on great but then it blew out the piston nut. I can't tell if the gas block was already stripped but when I looked inside half the threading was almost gone and it didn't look like it was freshly exposed metal so I'm not sure. I ordered a new piston nut. I was able to put the cracked nut in and shoot a couple rounds before it blew it out again so figured I'd put some jb weld on the threads and tighten it in and see if that permanently does it. When I re-attached the gas block I cleaned out the gas hole pretty well so I wonder if I achieved too much pressure. If it blows out again with the jb weld then I'll heat it up and clean it out with a smaller drill bit as a way to adjust the gas down. Then after that I'll order a criterion barrel for $200. |
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Lightning330
On Point Joined: Aug 22 2018 Location: Page, AZ 86040 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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More experienced will chime in I'm sure. But your done. Time for a new barrel. JB Weld works for raising a front sight blade. But threads cannot be fixed with what your doing. Time to STOP and replace.
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Lightning 330
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1st M1 88
On Point Joined: Aug 26 2016 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 278 |
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With the high pressures that are escaping when the block fails I would not want to take that chance. If you shooting without rifle rested your hand is holding the stock. JMHO.
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geoffois
Recruit Joined: Dec 26 2019 Location: Pasadena Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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When it blew off the gas block I shot it a few times trying to figure out what's going on and then twice when it blew out the gas block there was nothing coming out of the stock. You wouldn't even know there was an issue other than it wouldn't cycle. The 1mm hole in the barrel will have high pressure when contained in the fingernail sized area but once it escapes the tiny volume of the gas block it drops. Even the inside of the wood stock is untouched looking. The blast wave from my brother's muzzle brake is more dangerous but I appreciate the concern. I do want to maintain a safe shooting condition. I only say trying jb weld because it claims 5000 psi and the cracked piston nut actually held in stripped threads for 3 shots before I realized it came out because it was already stripped. A $6 nut and $5 jb weld can't hurt. Worst case it comes back out again.
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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As a last ditch effort to save the barrel, maybe just go ahead and weld/braze the nut in place. Install the piston and nut....and braze it into the cylinder avoiding sticking the piston. The barrel is toast and you rarely ever have to remove a piston anyway. JB weld is not going to fix it. I have seen gas blocks for sale, if you want to replace it. IMHO it’s time for another barrel or just part the carbine and obtain another barreled action. I’f you have to get another barrel and pay a smith to install it, you’ll be out for more than it’s worth and you can’t be sure a GI barrel will head space to that commercial receiver. You’d just about have to obtain a short chambered barrel, which would be a new barrel.
I’d weld the sucker back together and shoot it. You’re not going to break anything beyond what it already is.
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