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B-Q stamp for rear flip sight

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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: B-Q stamp for rear flip sight
    Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 8:08am
Marcus pointed out that he is refinishing some parts. So take into account that on bid values. Look at the flash and factor that flash makes things look lighter. Dark parts have probably been refinished. I got a rear sight and mag catch that are too dark for normal finish colors but didn't realize he was redoing them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2019 at 6:51pm
It's all good. Mistakes are made, yet sometime you find a gem.
Unfortunately with my location. To visit gun shows. It's 275 miles to Phoenix. Salt Lake City, Utah is more.
Vegas is about the same as Phoenix. It's just not easy to have that pleasure is all. So I'm kinda at the mercy of what's on line. I don't like it, but it is my location that starves me from getting around to such events. That's kinda why I tend to pester for info. Plus the simple fact that I have much to learn.
I can't even imagine finding a carbine as tenOCEE mentioned above. It just does not happen in my neck of the woods. Flagstaff AZ has maybe 2 a year. 135 miles for travel. Nice for this boy for the venture, but 3 carbines total and all were very sad.
I guess I need to quit shopping and spend the money for travel. Thumbs Up
As said above. It's all good.
No words can describe how much I appreciate this site and all the help from everyone.
PM's and straight up. It's all good. Many thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2019 at 11:01am
Well stated. BTW, I saw a very nice very early original at a show yesterday asking 1200 but could've been bought at 1000, possibly 950 if someone had the cash to display--I didn't go to buy and did not have it. It wasn't perfect but would've been money ahead of maybe two restorations. And you get the pride of finding one that's not corrected basically for almost shooter price. Flip, dogleg, checkered safety, high wood stock. The bad? Someone filled the I cut and sling cut outs.

Also, it's one thing to buy parts from demils. The malicious side of parts changing is what happens to originals. Beautiful S'G' Carbines get parted out for lesser quality IPs. Same thing happens to nice 1st gen Pontiac Firebirds that get scabbed onto rusted out Camaro cowl sections. I like all of these and have bought two S'G's that someone broke up because I like anything Grand Rapids. One is a near perfect condition bare receiver someone took everything off of, and we've seen those bare receivers sold on GB and even offered on ebay (where they aren't supposed to be). A 2nd one bought to restore had lost it's flipper, stock and trigger group. It's tragic to look at and most likely at my current income level it won't get corrected by me anymore. Especially because last year I found an orig 1st block S'G' for $729 buy it now on GB which is still intact because originals matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kro1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2019 at 9:57am
I know I’m a little late in this discussion but I would like to offer a rule of thumb with regards to restorations. Obviously it’s your carbine so do as you please but keep in mind that what ever you do the value will always be the sum of the parts that are on it. Any increase in value will be that of the added parts minus the value of those that were replaced. Restoring can be fun but in the end you usually end up with more money in it than what you will get out of it. That being said I’m not opposed to restorations the hunt for parts is challenging and fun at the same time. The only negative is that at some point down the road the restoration will be passed off as original. That’s why when purchasing a carbine always keep in mind the sum of the parts when determining value.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 8:38pm
All Carbines in original configuration become bring-backs that possibly served under Patton in the Ardennes or on Iwo. But they are definitely not DCM offerings. Or so I'm told.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 8:11pm
Thanks again too all for input. Restoration is not a possible with what I'm doing.
It's nothing more than a wanna-be.
I envy the real bring backs so to speak. Not a challenge at all, anything is possible.
Parts were changed in the field is a possible for bring backs?
I seldom ever hear of the one's that never left. The perfect carbine of course. Lots of them never got shipped. Perfect indeed, but no bragging rights. So the stories might just grow a little?
I can't afford a true bring back or a never sent carbine.
Restore is a fine line and actually impossible. It is restored.
I stand okay with a wanna-be is all I'm saying.
It just gets frustrating when you proudly show your carbine. Then the first thing you hear is. It's nice, but the barrel band with lug and the rear sights are incorrect fist off.
I don't ever plan on fooling anyone. I guess I'm just saying. I want them to look harder before the first off initial criticism. It will come of course, but at least it might get a second look.
Not being negative at all towards replies. I like receiving negative and positive. Sometimes they fit together. You can't learn and grow unless you keep a open mind and also reply if unsure. 
If I don't come back, then I surrender right off. I am going too, and will always ask more.
Thanks again to all.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 7:26pm
Go for it Lightning!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 6:36pm
Understood, it's definitely your carbine so do with it as you wish. I was just making sure you understood the downside of changing the rear sight ( if it had an adjustable type ) and with the replacement barrel on it. Good luck with your restoration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 5:22pm
It has a I.R. CO. 7160060 on it now.  What are your reasons of reluctance to change it?
I do realize I will have stake marks to contend with and I may not like that indeed.
Here are my reasons for doing what I'm doing. I have 3 carbines. One is a nice Universal Gen 2 that I have done a lot of work to and changed everything possible to USGI parts. The receiver and barrel with the open slide is all that is not changed. The slide has been replaced and the newer one has been worked over with more meat added to the problem areas. Been shooting it for well over a year since all the changes, and it's a fun shooter indeed. Stock and hand guard has been changed and modified for the barrel and slide difference. Plus the needed change anyway for the Inland trigger housing assembly. Post war pot belly stock and hand guard.
Then I have my 1944 Inland that is a shooter also that is all Inland, but still a mix match. Type 6 trigger housing assembly and type 6 slide. That is where that part ends. No other parts for the deadly 7 combo I believe it's called. My QHMC 1943 is also nice but also was a rebuild.
I wanted one carbine to be as parts correct per it's time frame as I can get it.
My friend ask today at breakfast why I was doing all this. Are you going to improve on the value? Will you get your investment back? My answer was, no way! But it's my feel good placebo pill and have the need to have one carbine look like it should and be as parts correct as I can get it.
It's just an itch I need to scratch is all I can account for.
Small bank account and I will never be able to afford the real deal!
My interests go for Civil War and the Old West as well. All are shooters only. I do feel the need to shoot them. My latest is a Sharps&Hankins 1862 Navy model that is nice. Thanks to Dixie and their rimfire brass conversion. I have shot "Uncle Jack" I call it. With 36 rounds of nice success.
Sorry for the long write. Just wanted to try and explain the reason behind my insanity.
I like to tinker and spend money I don't have. Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2019 at 11:42am
Lightning, I was just curious to what rear sight was on your Quality Hardware right now. For several different reasons I would be reluctant to change anything if it has an adjustable on it currently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 26 2019 at 9:26pm
Thank-you for the pics tenOCEE. I sent a PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 26 2019 at 11:12am
That's my understanding about the X marked staking too. These are the only pics I found of a B-Q that I bought a little over a year ago. Really that was the first one I owned.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 26 2019 at 11:03am
Thanks tenOCEE,  Could I possibly get you to send pics of your B-Q and markings? I would appreciate that for a comparison.
I noticed you mentioned the round pin staking as the one to look for. I have seen several that had the O and also the X like a double stake. I noticed the ones I saw like that were in the 4 million serial numbers so I haven't gave them much look. Am I correct on that by chance. The o with x was used a little later maybe? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 26 2019 at 9:28am
If it were me, just get the GE-Q with the round pin staking. I also like the B-Q because it's not as common. I own one of each, but that's because they're flips and that's whats intriguing. There really aren't many variables considering the serial range. There are assembly variations and sequence considerations with each different make, but the easy answer is the one above.
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 25 2019 at 3:19pm
Thanks guys, you have all been very helpful indeed.
New2brass -- Serial # is 1916---  and unfortunately the barrel is 9-44 by Underwood with the flaming bomb. The 9 is hard to read, but it's there. I would like to change that also but doubt I will unless I fall into a equal trade or something later. It is Underwood and reads under 2 on the ME gauge.  I'm sure it was replaced during the rebuild but still a nice barrel. Underwood is good for the match, the date is not.
I had no idea so many variables of rear sights went on the QHMC. But understandable. Get them when and ware you can. War production came first and they only made the receivers and I assume the spring tube also. My tube does have the Q on the end. I agree the GE-Q is going to be the easiest find. Several of those are still on the de-milled receivers but condition is minimum good to fair.
Thanks again to all. Hope everyone is enjoying Christmas Day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 25 2019 at 12:33pm
Lightning, That looks to be a scan of Harrison's book. Looking at the a third printing and one that has no date that page correlates to page 109. Perhaps a first edition?
a lot of information has been updates, changed or have been found to be incorrect since those printings.

Next is your use of second block. QHMC was assigned 6 blocks, though there were two sets of consecutive numbered blocks. So I am assuming you mean your carbine is in the 1.8 to 1.9 range. If you provided the first 4 digits as well as the barrel make and date it would narrow down  what may be correct.

Looking at CCNL 334 with the QHMC manufacture update we can see that QHMC carbines have been observed with a wide range of combinations of rear sights. the bases throughout production we see GQ, GE-Q R, RR, Q and BQ. The Square S has been observed with or without letters on the opposite side. 
For the leafs there were mostly unmarked, .U., and BQ. So you can see it gets convoluted real quick.
The GE-Q had frequent use throughout production and my be your easiest find.

Irwin Pedersen and S'G" only had 3 subcontractors for the rear sight bases. Jasper Blackburn, Redfield, and Wadsworth Watch Case.

I find no listing of Beckwith for M1 carbine production In War Baby nor the Carbine Club Newsletters.
Beckwith/Victory Plastics did produce scabbards for knives and bayonets.

I suspect the the source of the Beckwith for IP stems from a defunct short run newsletter. Looking back that newsletter group was rife with incorrect information. 




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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 24 2019 at 9:49pm
You probably won't find the proper Square S. I've never seen one for sale loose. Just mark it off your list. The ones you're looking at aren't correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 24 2019 at 6:16pm
Okay: It flew, sweet!
Third attempt to just say this in a shorter version. Looks like QHMC has maybe 3 possibles.
The GE-Q and B-Q on the right side and the normal S on the left.  Then to my paper sent which was a sticky a few years ago on M1 Carbine Forum. The possible of just the square S only used in the fall of 43. GE-Q seems to be used the most. My receiver fits the fall issue of 43. I want this carbine to be as parts correct as I can get it. It won't be original, it never will be, plus it is not now. It's a nice shooter that has went through the rebuild. I still have other shooters. This is my placebo or feel good pill is all. Parts correct only is my happy zone.
Just trying to be sure from the help of you all, if a square S also fits in that time frame. The page I sent says it does, but it is also all I've ever seen per that info.
A friend of mine sent some info for transfer of complete sights and also just the base in 43. #'s are low, but they are there as sent and a possible?
It just opens the door a little wider for choices. Many had just the square S at times. Parts were always exchanged. So I'm basically trying to find a rear sight that is in my time frame of production.
Not all, but most of these are still mounted on the de-milled receiver. So I feel they are legit.
Point being: If your price shopping of course and looking at the overall shape. Having 3 to pick from is a much better window indeed, providing that window is actually there.
It's a tall question and favor to be asking. It's the holidays and only look if you get bored.
Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 24 2019 at 5:26pm
Thanks all. Very much appreciated.
I have written two replies and managed to lose it all twice trying to insert my page with the info I have. I will try and just send it first and explain next if it does fly.
I'm not real computer smart.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 24 2019 at 4:17pm
As far as I can tell, Beckwith only made rear sights for carbines. But Blackburn is also a legitimate candidate. Both of them apparently used a B- on their production.
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