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Bolt question (IBM) SR

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Jt22453 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 1:39pm
I was looking at a round bolt I have that appears to have an H on the left lug with no other markings on it. Any info on who the manufacturer might be or someone have one like it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 1:56pm
Look for Remnants of AOB on the End of Right Lug.

If so, you have a IBM bolt.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 2:15pm
Yep, there it was. I had to look with a magnifying glass and wipe some crud off but I could see it. Thanks Painter! Does the H have a purpose or is it an unknown?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 4:39pm
Seems to me like the assembler in charge of marking IBM bolts was afraid they might scratch something. I have one missing the B.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 4:39pm
JT,
I don't recall the meaning of the H.
I dug out some notes and see that the H was common on the later AOB bolts. Earlier ones were often found with some type of letter(s) or letter/number on or below the left lug. Like VM or W7... etc.
I'm not positive but I believe this was just the Round bolts (I could be wrong) it may include Flat bolts also.
Maybe someone else will know.
Curious if yours has the X on top?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 5:36pm
It does not. That was one of the reasons I didn’t think it was an IBM at the start and thought I’d ask. No other letters or numbers anywhere after looking very closely over the entire bolt and taking the components out. Bolt is in pretty good shape which is what surprised me about the AOB being hard to see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 7:15pm
Not too surprising. Many of them were stamped very lightly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 10:43pm
Hey JimBo Thumbs Up

JT, When you think about the face of the right lug twisting and a turning inside the Op slide cam it's a wonder any markings remain. Especially ones that were originally lightly stamped.
Your question got me to wondering about the markings found on and under these IBM/AOB bolts' left lugs.
So I started a 'Be on the look out and reply' topic over on Milsurps. Give it a week or so and maybe we'll learn something new.

So you have NO X....... Good thing, sounds like your bolt would have all the late upgrades!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 10:57pm
Yeah, the carbine was rebuilt by Standard Products. Very true about the right bolt lug. I hope you are able to piece together some conclusions from the info you receive. Thanks, as always, for the assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2019 at 11:42pm
Sorry Jt,
Never did really answer you.....
Auto Ordnance for IBM
The H... Not sure maybe a Inspector, Shift, Shop Location, Lot........
The rest all (like this) just Guessing. Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2019 at 12:08am
Thanks, kind of what I figured. I took yet another look at the bolt after you wrote about wondering about the left lug. Mine has a D under the lug for your spotters info. I thought you meant directly under the lug, like on the lug itself. Makes me wonder what other things I’ve missed looking at this stuff. I’m trying, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2019 at 1:07am
auto ordnance had production issues related to the hardening process.
If I remember correctly one of the other prime contractors released a subcontractor to help out IBM.

Is it possible that in the frenzy of the bottleneck in production that AO hardened the bolts before stamping the AOB?
It would be more difficult to stamp a hardened bolt and possibly why we see light markings on some AOB bolts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2019 at 9:02am
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

auto ordnance had production issues related to the hardening process.
If I remember correctly one of the other prime contractors released a subcontractor to help out IBM.

Is it possible that in the frenzy of the bottleneck in production that AO hardened the bolts before stamping the AOB?
It would be more difficult to stamp a hardened bolt and possibly why we see light markings on some AOB bolts.

Yep US&S; Delivered machined bolts to IBM while AOB bolts were in quarantine due to hardening issues. I believe late Jan 44. US&S made shipments of bolts to IBM between Feb. 2nd & 22nd. Total shipped was 6000.
Reference: WB! pg. 204
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2019 at 9:58am
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

JT,
I don't recall the meaning of the H.
I dug out some notes and see that the H was common on the later AOB bolts. Earlier ones were often found with some type of letter(s) or letter/number on or below the left lug. Like VM or W7... etc.
I'm not positive but I believe this was just the Round bolts (I could be wrong) it may include Flat bolts also.
Maybe someone else will know.
Curious if yours has the X on top?

CH-P777

I believe this is early 44 AOB Round X marked bolt. No H and C marked under left lug. Note the early ejector & Type-2 Firing Pin used in this one. Of course whatever was in the parts bin was most likely used. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2019 at 3:15pm
Aware of AOB flat bolts with A, B & C markings under left lug and reports of flat AOB bolts with maybe R, P or an 8.  Rounds with C, D, E, F or G.

What about rounds with B or perhaps an R, under the left lug and no markings on the face of left lug? 
This bolt marking combination is mentioned in WB! pg. 478.

Found this on an auction site and the seller was kind enough to oblige me with a pic.
Looks like a B that was not fully stamped to me but who knows? No X stamp on top.

Any members with an original example containing one of these or CC reports?


Might be some double strike stamping going on here? Or maybe re-worked and struck a second time later?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2019 at 3:43pm
Is there an X on the top of the bolt?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2019 at 3:44pm
No sir; that was in my post. No X
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2019 at 3:52pm
Missed that.

CCNL 329 on the IBM manufacture update MENTIONS R, P, and 8 in the area of flat B bolts suggesting that they are partial stamps. 

It is speculated that the letters below the lug are heat lot numbers, So Flat A, B, C then Round C, D, E, F, or G suggest that the C range is an overlap.

Is it possible that the round bolts were also in the B lot? If so could it be that the X was not stamped?
The X signifying that it did not have all the updates, which would seem to be transitional from flat to round bolt area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2019 at 8:21pm
3.85


Perhaps a C?



Whatever this mark may be...


3.86




3.9



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2019 at 8:43pm
@m1a1fan
Is the  3.85 or 3.86 X  marked? 
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