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new to me plainfield

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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: new to me plainfield
    Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 7:48pm
There has to be a reason they altered the pressure on the extractor, but I have seen it in two IJ’s. I don’t know if the Plainfield in question came out of the IJ shop or not.

I have a pic of that system. I will see if I can find it.

Here it is. One on left is GI. The right came from an IJ.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 7:33pm
Just a tip when putting the bolt back together....When you put the extractor plunger back into the spring before trying to push it down with the pawl, put a tiny dab of heavy grease or vaseline on the end of the spring first. It will hold the plunger in place long enough for you to get the pawl on it without the plunger jumping off and hiding in the carpet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 5:57pm
Still guessing. Some commercial bolts have shallow plunger spring pockets. I have gutted Universals and Iver Johnsons that had very short plunger springs and long plungers. If the bolt will assemble with the plunger fully seated, it should still work, but I said we were guessing....still are. When you manually cycle the extractor with something like a screwdriver, does it move completely away from the inner cavity wall?

Is the extractor nose protruding past the bolt skirt? Are there any marks on the breech-face that could be made by the skirt or extractor striking it?

Is head space too tight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 68coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 5:43pm
My '43 NPM has the same wear pattern to the feed ramp, only not as pronounced. It runs like a champ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumppo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 5:20pm
cycling manually results in the same failure to extract.
the first round gets chambered normally by racking the slide normally, so i don't think it's caused by a weak recoil spring. 
the bolt's forward movement is stopped cold before it has finished rotating clockwise to the 'in battery' position, because the leading face of the ejector claw is ramming against the base of the chambered cartridge without being displaced outward against the resisting ejector spring pressure so as to slip over the cartridge the rim. if I hit the charging handle hard enough with the butt of my palm in a 'forward assist' type of action, the bolt will close, but it takes a good hard punch to do that, much harder than the forward assist on an ar-15. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 4:40pm
How does it act when you manually cycle? Take the gun to a safe place and hand-cycle it pulling the slide to full retraction with a loaded magazine, don’t baby it...pull it all way back and let go. 

Just guessing, but the main spring could be weak and can’t find the energy to strip a fresh round and force the bolt home? If it seems to cycle properly by hand, could be a weak spring or some sort of rub or interference in the action. 

Manually cycle it and report.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumppo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 21 2021 at 3:42pm
I'm working on a standard products M1 that, like the Plainfield discussed above, is extracting the first round normally but will not extract another. the extractor claw is not slipping around the case rim of the second round, instead it is slamming into it and halting there.
   I replaced the extractor, extractor spring, and extractor spring plunger, with parts ordered from interarms Texas, and then tried again, with exactly the same result every time. 
  the extractor seems to have too much pressure from the spring, so that it will not be pushed back out toward the perimeter of the bolt face by the chambered cartridge's rim enough to slide over the rim and engage its claw into the slot of the cartridge rim.
any suggestions?
thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2019 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

Rounds alternately feed from either side of the mag. The hump may not be a problem. 

couldn't wait for my usual day (wednesdays are old guy days) so I went today. I shot 50 rounds, and now only two misfeeds, (zero failure to extract). I am thinking now, that the two "new" 10 round magazines (soon to be mandated in WA). are the issue as the 30 round mag worked perfectly. One of the 10 rounders misfed twice (both on the 3rd round) and the other 10 rounder misfired once on the fourth round. Other than that it was pretty much better today. I am now on a hunt for a youtube video on tuning an M1 magazine. wish me luck!.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2019 at 8:56pm
Rounds alternately feed from either side of the mag. The hump may not be a problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2019 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

Me thinks Bubba has been turned lose with his die-grinder. Has the area above the chamber on the top right hand side of the receiver ring been altered as well? Looks like it has.

Alterations on the receiver ring in that area indicate that brass (or loaded rounds) was not ejecting properly...hitting the top of the receiver. It looks like they were trying to make it load-n-shoot something that it was never intended to do, like a longer bullet profile? I have a 9-mil carbine that has been relieved in a small area on the inside of the ring to allow a loaded round to be ejected by hand, but it was designed and done at the factory...not in a garage or tool-shed. 

Let me come back and add that I am not bashing the gun, or the previous owners decision to modify it. There may have been a good reason for it. I don’t think anything has been done to the gun rendering it unsafe. If it performs, these are only cosmetic details.

Whoever the previous owner was did not replace the extractor or ejector or springs which I just did. I have not gotten to shoot it after I did that yesterday.For sure, it was not extracting or ejecting after the frist round hardly at all. Hopefully it is now. News at 11, The problem with the hump, we will see about as my range isnt open until tuesday. I will report after.  I wonder how, if the hump is an issue, we can deal with it, but that is another story. take care y'all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2019 at 12:25pm
Me thinks Bubba has been turned lose with his die-grinder. Has the area above the chamber on the top right hand side of the receiver ring been altered as well? Looks like it has.

Alterations on the receiver ring in that area indicate that brass (or loaded rounds) was not ejecting properly...hitting the top of the receiver. It looks like they were trying to make it load-n-shoot something that it was never intended to do, like a longer bullet profile? I have a 9-mil carbine that has been relieved in a small area on the inside of the ring to allow a loaded round to be ejected by hand, but it was designed and done at the factory...not in a garage or tool-shed. 

Let me come back and add that I am not bashing the gun, or the previous owners decision to modify it. There may have been a good reason for it. I don’t think anything has been done to the gun rendering it unsafe. If it performs, these are only cosmetic details.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2019 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

well all, I have screwed the pooch, I tried to change out the extractor spring and knob, did not have any trouble disassembling, but can't reassemble, on ebay to try to get a bolt disassembly reassembly tool. news at 11. 

follow-up on STP, Well I tried to order the tool on ebay, that was no fun, I think, for me, auctions are a non starter. Got "out bid" 4 times, I think something is fishy. So, I ordered one from numrich with the little knob thing I dropped on the floor and it disappeared. (even though I had a white towel both on the workbench and floor under the vice). The tool and knob were less money and a guarenteed purchase. hope it will be here soon. I did see a pretty good youtube on doing the job. but, I only need the part on reassembly. wish me luck, I will repost on that afterwards along with the range test. thanks guys. 


MORE: further, I got the part and the special tool. It took 15 minutes and no stress to get it put back together.I do, however have a question: The feed ramp looks funny to me, it seems to have two distinct "ramps" with a "hump" down the middle. Is this normal I am adding a picture here for clarification. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 30 2019 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

well all, I have screwed the pooch, I tried to change out the extractor spring and knob, did not have any trouble disassembling, but can't reassemble, on ebay to try to get a bolt disassembly reassembly tool. news at 11. 

follow-up on STP, Well I tried to order the tool on ebay, that was no fun, I think, for me, auctions are a non starter. Got "out bid" 4 times, I think something is fishy. So, I ordered one from numrich with the little knob thing I dropped on the floor and it disappeared. (even though I had a white towel both on the workbench and floor under the vice). The tool and knob were less money and a guarenteed purchase. hope it will be here soon. I did see a pretty good youtube on doing the job. but, I only need the part on reassembly. wish me luck, I will repost on that afterwards along with the range test. thanks guys. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 30 2019 at 7:45am
"If one has, or ever plans to own a carbine and do their own maintenance, the single best thing you will ever own is a bolt-tool. It can be done my hand, but you need three. One unneeded trip to a gunsmith will surely pay for the tool."

Amen to that statement!  I bought the USGI Bolt Tool and have dissembled, inspected, cleaned and reassembled the bolts on both of my carbines.  Someone also gave me the tip of reassembling the bolt inside a gallon size zip lock bag, just in case one of the small springs slips out of the tool.  That tip saved my butt once because I did have the extractor fly off it's spring; the zip lock bag caught it before it went into earth orbit! Shocked


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 30 2019 at 6:58am
If one has, or ever plans to own a carbine and do their own maintenance, the single best thing you will ever own is a bolt-tool. It can be done my hand, but you need three. One unneeded trip to a gunsmith will surely pay for the tool.

Springs and plungers pop in and out of M1 and M14 actions and the carbine started life with a like system. It was discovered they would “self eject” from the carbine action and the system had to be modified by the addition of the ledge on the extractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 29 2019 at 10:08pm
well all, I have screwed the pooch, I tried to change out the extractor spring and knob, did not have any trouble disassembling, but can't reassemble, on ebay to try to get a bolt disassembly reassembly tool. news at 11. 
THE oldfart69
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2019 at 3:43pm
Based on my personal experience, the #1 issue with extraction failures involves a dirty or marred claw, or the extractor plunger spring. A spring that is less than 400/1000th. in free length is suspect. Rake a sharp tool like an awl or dental-pick under the claw fingernail. Carbon will build-up there and it will not hook the rim. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2019 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

Hi guys, I have a new to me plainfield m1 carbine. I am onlyt having one issue right now and hopefully it it is a mag issue not a headspace issue. If I load 1 round it ejects perfectly, anything more and on occasion it is having failure to extract from the chamber. I do not have any facilities to measure headspace. Anyone out there have any tips to share with this newby? thanks in advance

follow-up on the 25th: two range trips in now, each much better. Still 4 failures to extract out of 40 rounds (4 reloads of 10 round new mags) . Cleaning seemed to help this the most. So, I ordered new extractor, spring, and button, new ejector and spring, new bolt spring and new firing pin from Numrich. today. Report after they are installed and tested. It is a process, but I am a patient old cuss and I will ficx this thing to the best it can be.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2019 at 1:30am
Originally posted by jackp1028 jackp1028 wrote:

Hi and welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

40 round magazine? That might be the problem.

sorry, 30, old fingers sometimes miss keys. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2019 at 3:17pm
Hi and welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

40 round magazine? That might be the problem.
JackP
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