Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
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My First Carbine |
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Thanks Ron. Thats a lot of good information.
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Charles Wilson
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I had a hard time posting pics on a iMac. any easier way?
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Charles Wilson
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Charles Wilson
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4661 |
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Chuck, Is that box marked Colt? What marking on the 30 rounder?
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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its marked J
J
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Charles Wilson
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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The other two are marked, 01 B
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Charles Wilson
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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If your neighbor doesn't care, I'd sell that one and wait to find the first generation Universal even if you have to upgrade the barrel, because those are the ones to own. I'd do it while that one is in as good of shape as it will be. Because there is a weak point in those receivers. Check the pics. Doesn't look like much but that is the thin spot on the receiver and who knows when this will happen. Saw two in one weekend in the same show that had done this. The one I bought for $175 was in excellent condition.
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2959 |
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Chuck, did you get that 30 mag and that jay scott box from the neighbor that you got the carbine from? It is interesting that the magazine is marked J as it is my belief that Jay Scott mags were marked "jay scott". |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Yes I got that from my neighbor.
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Charles Wilson
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Chuck70
Recruit Joined: Jun 24 2018 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I think the the 30 round was ordered separately but not sure though.
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Charles Wilson
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RClark9595
On Point Joined: Oct 30 2017 Location: WVC Utah Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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TenOCEE
I appreciate the photos of the receiver, but I am getting old and can not see the weak/thin spot you mentioned, in fact this is the first time I've heard of it. Is there any way you can point out the thin area in your pictures of the receivers. Jim points out in his articles that semi-automatic rifles are subject to more wear than conventional bolt action rifles. So would this be considered abnormal, or common, and is it associated only with the Universal? Edited by sleeplessnashadow - Dec 21 2023 at 6:10pm |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Yes, and let me reiterate that this Carbine shown was in excellent condition. Look at how little the finish is worn as proof. There's no wear from the bolt or slide like you normally see. The feed ramps have no discoloration wear through. Look at the left inside surfaces where the left bolt lug rides. Superb condition. No failure would be expected of a Carbine in this condition. And it failed the way Universal is known to. The same day I saw this one another one in identical condition with the same kaboom walked in the show within a couple hours. The owner said he bought it from his brother, and he fired 2 rounds through it but on the 3rd round it grenaded in his hands (and face). Fortunately he was wearing glasses. Here's the cracked receiver again with some annotation and high lights. The weak spot is on the right side of the receiver where the slide cutout upper inside surface approaches the sloped top surface of the receiver that the bolt rides back and forth on. When you hear of a Universal kabooming it's frequently this with the bolt and slide breaking free and flying upwards or toward your face in general. No warning will be given. One of the finest commercial receivers I've ever seen was a first generation Universal that even appeared Parked like a USGI model. I emailed Jim about it and discussed the barrel that a round was sticking in. He said they can still have an issue with the barrel over time and that this one was the product of two piece design sleeved into the rear section and the chamber was now fouled from this process. Instead of reaming the sl*g (forum has this word protected) migrating into the chamber Jim said to just replace it and have a nice commercial Carbine. In my layman's opinion the best commercial receivers are the first generation Universal, the Fulton forging and the Springfield forging. Everything has a life span. That one is shorter than the earliest Universal. Only get the earliest version. If anybody wants this kaboom receiver below as a wall hanger buildup, you can have
it for $37 shipped. It has to be transferred of course since it's not
C&R and still complete and intact. |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4661 |
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One of my research projects is the carbine mags, USGI and commercial. I have been trying to get decent examples to compare the construction and materials. The J and J are B. Jahn Mfg which became Okay mfg (or industries?) the observations I have made are that they are not consistent with the Jay Scott and others. If Jay Scott brand made a J marked mag it would be easy to compare by the cut on the spine of the magazine and bolster on the side of the magazine at the bottom which is to hold the floor plate on. "Jay Scott Clips" was marketed by Tony Scherer and had many different markings that mimicked USGI mags as well as some of their own such as "Made in USA" "Jay Scott" and "M2" The clip vs magazine is a whole different discussion. As to the question I asked about the box: If anyone has different box pictures please let me know. Also, I am looking for a few of the mags to further project. |
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RClark9595
On Point Joined: Oct 30 2017 Location: WVC Utah Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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tenOCEE
So if I understand correctly, these weak spots can cause the gun to fire out of battery, is that right? That is the only way it can blow up in a persons face. |
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS F4 Combat Crew Training Vietnam era Vet. |
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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The J marked ones I have always thought were made by Jahn. I have one or two in my magazine ( Lol, NOT clip! ) collection. I have also had the opportunity to buy some of the Jay Scott ones over the years, but have passed due to lack of enthusiasm. Still, I may add one or two of them yet to my mag hoard, but I'm in the getting rid of stuff mode now not the acquiring mode. Btw, I love that old jay scott box, have never seen one before.
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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The actual point of the pictures is to show the result, and that it's not rumor, and it's not due to condition. How often do two identical firearms walk in a show by 2 diff people with identical KB? I've owned about 10 different makes of commercial. That weak part breaking is the result of out of battery most likely. The out of battery issue is what everyone sites and it's specifically valid, but people don't seem to understand because you see them continually openly suggest that it's not a risk or theirs must not be at risk because they've shot it repeatedly and it's one of their best shooters. Sometimes it sounds like mysticism to them I think. The stellar condition of this particular Carbine which has almost NO wear still grenaded anyway. If you have a working one of these I suggest you get rid of it while it works and before you end up with at best 200 worth of remaining parts after it happens. The second one that walked in that show wasn't as nice but he said something hit him in the face when it blew up. Identical problem. Same era of gun.
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2959 |
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Dan, what caught my eye on the magazine that Chuck posted the picture of is the angled base plate retaining lip (bolster?) which according to CCNL 332-3 was only found on the Seymore "hardbacks" and the Jahn and OKay "welded" 30 rounders. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4661 |
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Like most things, the information was thought to be correct when published. The advantage of the club is updating information as it is found.
WB3 shows J as only parkerized. we now know there are blued ones. The angled bolster was also seen on I think all hardbacks. Splitbacks AYP, Unmarked (USGI and reproduction) had the angled bolster. Here is the kink, There are possible reproductions of AYP, SEY, AI over M2, A.I. Some of these have been observed with the rectangular bolster. Someone once asked why are you buying that obvious fake item. By having these items on hand I can photograph and present a visual for others to understand. So again, I am interested in any of those I do not have. Reproductions as well. |
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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GI furniture will mount on a Universal Gen-1. I have one of the early Gen-1's and the only thing Universal is the barrel and receiver. The wood and all internals are USGI. |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Never expected I'd be, but I'm a fan of the earliest first gens.
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