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Universal M1 Carbine (need help) |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 7:00pm |
They're around $1000 for the commercial Inland.
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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I’d have to go search-it-down, but I think I recall that Inland (the new one) was manufacturing a pistol carbine at one time. Looked just like the enforcer. I am not even sure if Inland is still around and possibly is/was in the Khar and Auto Ordnance family. Don’t know if that offering succeeded or not.
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Advisor Carbines are cooler than an AR pistol. And even a standard length M1A1 is shorter than a 12" barreled AR If I remember correctly, due to the gas tube. There are many damaged barrels out there for usage. Some are Blue Sky, Herlo, counter bored, blued, markings removed, sleeved barrels from Commercial makers, Criterion, etc.. Mine was originally a GI barrel that was already pistol length, which may have been done by one of the commercial companies. Can't remember now but it may have been one of the sleeved versions from a demilled gas section sleeved with a 1903.
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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I guess all of us have quirky things we do that makes the other guy wonder, I know I’m guilty.
I can’t see cutting down a 30 Carbine for a pistol. There are too many good and cheap AR pistol caliber components out there at the moment. The manufacturers are practically giving the stuff away. One reduces the effectiveness of the 7.62x33 when the barrel is whacked. Too much 9mm stuff out there to build and shoot for 1/3 the cost of 30-caliber ammo.
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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That's good information on the marking of the commercial receivers that can keep someone out of legal issues. I'm sure people have had that question in mind on how anyone might find out if it's been one or the other. This is the reason people buy a newly produced receiver to assemble a pistol length Carbine. You can get a Fulton receiver, especially when they go on sale a couple of times per year in the $270 range. Or save money and get an Enforcer.
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sleeplessnashadow
Admin Group Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Hi guys tenOCEE is correct. I was contact by the fella that runs the ATF reference library a number of years ago. The reconstruction work I was doing with serial numbers and year of manufacture on M1CarbinesInc.com was of interest to them. But they needed it in book form, not on a website. A couple years later he contacted me again. This time asking for permission to use the M1CarbinesInc.com website and it's info for manufacturing years. During the exchange the topic of the "Enforcer" models came up. Manufacturers were/are required to identify their carbine receivers made for a pistol identifiable as such so they can be distinguished from those made for a rifle. An ATF regulation so they can enforce the laws regarding minimum rifle barrel length. Universal Firearms did this by imprinting the name Enforcer into the top of the receiver. Where ATF was having difficulty was with the Enforcer and Super Enforcers made by Plainfield Machine and more so with Iver Johnson's Arms. These two companies identified their Enforcer models using 1-3 letters added before the serial number. With Iver Johnson these letters changed over time. In part due to changes in ownership of the company. If you want a legal short barreled carbine it needs to have a receiver with the designation indicating it was manufactured for a pistol. Or do the complicated and not so welcome paperwork and dance with ATF to convert a rifle to a pistol. I realize the only difference between the two receivers is the marking identifying it as made for a pistol. Logic is irrelevant when it comes to law "enforcement". Where logic should take place is when the laws are written. ATF being able to write regulations that become law is a different topic. Hope this helps Jim |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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What I understand is that if a receiver has been originally assembled as a rifle with barrel of legal rifle length it isn't legal to assemble it with a short barrel without an NFA form approval and tax plus permanent marking. You can risk using a receiver in the blocks made when a company was assembling pistol length, but it is a risk due to legality. One way to get around the above concerns is to buy an NFA M2 trigger group (Get two. They're cheap). Once installed into a receiver it's now defined as a machinegun and you can shorten away with no stamp. You just can't remove the group and leave the shortened assembly. Not a cheap endeavor though.
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blackfish
On Point Joined: Mar 30 2016 Location: 999-0 Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Build a stock for it yourself (!) and turn it into a bullpup.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT LEGAL |
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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It may very well be perfectly legal to build an enforcer. They are bought-n-sold every day. I just know some ambulance-chaser would have a field day beating on you in court about a “sawed-off machine gun”. Leaving the barrel alone and installing a folding stock seems okay. The overall legal rifle length is measured with the stock opened to it’s full length, as with a collapsible M4 stock. And, must have a 16” barrel of course, or it’s a SBR.
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RClark9595
On Point Joined: Oct 30 2017 Location: WVC Utah Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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This is for information only for the time being, better to know in advance, than find out after all is said and done that I screwed up, possibly even fined or jail time if I used it for home defense.
Thanks for the info, that's one option off the table, that's a shame I liked the idea, I was thinking if I could buy the right gun with a damaged stock for a cheap price, I could turn it into something special, oh well, another idea turned sour, good to know. Thanks
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS F4 Combat Crew Training Vietnam era Vet. |
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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What’s your SN range?
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1998 |
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Anytime we start cutting barrels shorter than 16”, we get into SBR categories. The ATF continues to bird-dog the short barrel rifle issue and it’s getting pretty silly. Why they allow a “brace” I don’t know. It can be used just like a stock. Your mod may be completely legal now but not tomorrow and you could be forced to eventually apply for a tax stamp at $200.
I refused to pay the $200 extortion money and just got rid of my SBR’s and stopped trying to stay ahead of the SBR regulations.
I would go with a stock replacement and leave the barrel alone. Gen-1’s will drop right into a GI stock. Issues with Gen-2’s and 3’s seem to be problematic. |
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RClark9595
On Point Joined: Oct 30 2017 Location: WVC Utah Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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Question: I know this thread is old, but, Is it legal to take (as we know it) a standard manufactured comercial carbine and cut off the stock and barrel to match the enforcer? Like; for instance if you have a broken/damaged stock but it could be made into a pistol?
Let me take it a little further with the same question, what if someone has access to a wood working machine shop, and they make for me a Paratrooper out of it. Of course if I were to sell either, I'd have to be up front from the beginning that this is a custom built one of a kind and was not a factory offered model. |
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS F4 Combat Crew Training Vietnam era Vet. |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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All Right.......... Good Luck.
JP, Thanks for covering my 6, A Good Weekend to you CH-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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BigBluezilla
Recruit Joined: Jun 13 2018 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thanks gents! I scooped it up. Will report back once I have some news. Thanks again!!
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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I'd go with 545370B while it's available. Let us know how it goes.
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JackP
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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I would think the best choice, plus if your done with it you could sell your current stock on Ebay..... but hang on to your hand guard.
Lets see what JP thinks, he's better schooled with these than I am. Later, CH-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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BigBluezilla
Recruit Joined: Jun 13 2018 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thanks Charlie. Yes, the one from Numrich 545370B. You guys thinking not a good choice?
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Do you mean Numrich Product #: 545370B ? The GI look alike for $129.95 ? IMO Best I see from their choices. The ones with the medallions and or Monte Carlo cheek rests, to me wouldn't look right. But your call. I'm with JP, and very leery of having to try to fit one. I'll keep an eye out. Good Luck Charlie-Painter777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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I think you would be better off getting a Universal stock from Numrich. The Boyd stock was made for a GI style carbine. There are many more differences than just the opening for the trigger housing. The receiver opening is also different. The operating slide is wider so it probably will hit inside the fore stock. The bridge in front of the TH is different and will probably have to be modified or even removed. When I got a Gen II Universal I considered modifying a GI stock but decided not to after trying to actually fit the different assemblies into a GI stock. You may want to contact the seller and find out what other "MINOR fitting might be required." I suspect it will be more than "MINOR".
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JackP
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