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twozero
Recruit Joined: Jun 03 2018 Location: Oakley, CA Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Jun 06 2018 at 4:23pm |
Greetings, everyone. I'm a long time carbine owner but brand new to your forum from northern CA. I joined in hopes of being able to learn from all the wonderful knowledge and experience you have here as well as hopefully get pointed in the right direction with a modest project I am attempting with my carbine.
I wish I could say that I own a pristine example of a 100% authentic "G.I. issue" M1 Carbine from one of the many manufacturers who actually made them for the government. Unfortunately, that is not the case. My carbine is a humble Universal look-alike that I purchased brand new way back in 1973 before I was old enough to know all M1s were not created equal. It was readily available and very inexpensive. Despite the lack of pedigree, and I have heard all manner of horror stories from those whose Universals did not perform or hold up so well, mine has been relatively problem free and has done what little I have demanded of it fairly well. My carbine is essentially identical to the one in this pic I grabbed off Google Images. Now that I am about to retire and have a little extra time on my hands, I have decided to finally address something that has been bothering me for years. My carbine will never be authentic and I don't have any desire to try to pass it off as one or to ever sell it. If anything, it will end up being passed on to my sons if the laws in this wonderful state will still permit it by whenever I pass from this world. What bugs me, is that even though it isn't authentic, I wish it at least looked more like a genuine M1; if only at first glance. The two most obvious differences I am hoping to correct are the black vented metal upper hand guard and the absence of a bayonet lug. The former is fairly easy to replace with wood; even if I have to carve my own and/or refinish it to match. But, finding a barrel band assembly with the bayonet lug that will fit the thicker barrel of the Universal is proving to be a bit more of a challenge. I bought one from Numrich that is supposed to fit but it is just too tight and it doesn't look like there is enough wall thickness to hone it out to make the inner diameter large enough. So, again, greetings to you all. Before I burden any of you with lots of questions, I'm off into your archives because the answers are probably already there. Rich Ng Oakley, CA
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TwoZero
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 2949 |
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Welcome to the forum.
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of great folks on here to help answer questions re: commercial carbines.
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Charles
Grunt Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Welcome to the forum, wish I could help but don't have an answer to that.You must know that the bayonet lug was an add on later to upgrade the older weapons.
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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I was noticing in the pic that the handguard seemed to be the main thing. As for the barrel band it has the general looks of a type 2 band or are you set on getting a bayo lug? Any thoughts to saving up for a military issued shooter? Just a thought.
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twozero
Recruit Joined: Jun 03 2018 Location: Oakley, CA Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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The bayonet lug isn't an absolute must have. After all, even if I acquire an authentic M4 bayonet and M8A1 scabbard, which I haven't done yet, and probably won't unless I can find the barrel band with the bayonet lug, it's not like I expect to ever really have an actual need for it. It's all just nice to have. At the same time, I feel that having the barrel band with the bayonet lug really improves the overall appearance of the weapon.
So, if I can find one, or hone out the one I have to fit, great. If not, I can live without it. But, no, it's not real likely that I will every spend the bucks for a G.I. issue. I love my little carbine but I have to admit it's not the most prized weapon in my very small collection. That honor goes to a brand new Springfield Armory Model#SA9121, an M1A Long Range Match that is essentially an M1A Super Match fitted with the heavyweight Douglas barrel and the M21 style stock with the adjustable cheek piece to which I've also added a Harris bipod and a Leatherwood M1000 "Camputer" 2x-10x ART scope on a Springfield Armory Gen 4 see-through mount that let's me still use the iron sights if I so desire. That puppy set me back over $5K, and I've got a serious itch to pick up one of the Model 19s that S&W just decided to start producing again; before they change their minds or limit the production run. And I still don't have a Garand. So, for now, I'll just try to improve my Universal on the cheap and maybe down the road....who knows? But, thanks for the suggestion.
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TwoZero
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Outstanding! And an impressive wish list you have there. I didn't know about the 19s return. Going for the Classic or Performance Center Carry Comp? That's an interesting sidearm.
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RClark9595
On Point Joined: Oct 30 2017 Location: WVC Utah Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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Welcome to the club.
There is a whole section in this site on the Universal carbine, www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.html and the man that authored it is an expert on the Universal, I had the good fortune to have met him once. You can email him and he may have the answers you need, usually he knows, and if he doesn't, then he knows someone who does. I also own a Universal as well and a Winchester USGI Mixmaster. The Universal is for sale on this site if you want to check it out, it's been there for awhile, so far only tire kickers. May pull the add and just keep it, it's a great shooter. www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/for-sale-universal_topic3207.html. At any rate check the Universal section out, it's a must read for Universal owners. PS, don't believe 90% of the crap you hear about Universals, it's mostly here say, he said she said kind of stuff, usually they can't tell you exactly why they are so bad, what goes wrong with them, actually they are pretty decent guns, they feel and shoot like the real deal? FYI, the biggest problem I have found with the Universal is when using bad, cheap or most aftermarket magazines. Don't do it, as with the USGI Carbines, good quality magazines are a must, USGI mags preferred. Don't blame the rifle when using a poor quality magazine, they'll cause failure to feed, jamming and after a time, even mag well wear. |
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS F4 Combat Crew Training Vietnam era Vet. |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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All Are Welcome,
May I ask? You mention the S&W Model 19......... Is this the Revolver? If so I hadn't heard about a possible new run. But haven't been paying attention either. I have 2 Model 19-3 that I love, By far my favorite .357 magnum revolvers I believe a USGI Hand guard would fit your commercial. A post WWII would save some money, since your not in need of a specific marking. I replaced a metal guard on a Plainfield with a wood GI for a friends teenage son. The boy named Rocky, wanted more of an authentic look. As far as making a guard..... This link will show you a hand made HG someone made: For Universal parts, go here: https://www.gunpartscorp.com Then type in this search: bayonet band for universal carbine It pulled up 4 different Bayo's, New, Finish color, etc Looks like they are out of the Universal Wood HG's. You could try a WTB add for 1 here. Also watch Ebay for a Universal or other Commercial HG. HTH, Again Welcome Charlie-Painter777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Rich, welcome to the forum from New Mexico!
Sorry Charlie, a USGI hand guard will not fit a Type II. Universal has a square barrel under the hand guard that interferes. You would have to route out the inside the hand guard to fit. Then, I'm not sure about the length. Rich, I'm rebuilding a Type II with a wood hand guard and may be interested in trading. PM me if you're interested. |
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JackP
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Thx JP,
I've only handled a few Plainfields, never any other type of commercial m1's. Appreciate the correction. Cheers, Charlie-Painter777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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twozero
Recruit Joined: Jun 03 2018 Location: Oakley, CA Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Thanks for all who have replied thus far. I appreciate the feedback, the advice, and the info.
Just to update everyone who might be interested in what progress I make, if any, here is where I am at so far... I had already been to the gunparts.com website and ordered one of the four barrel bands with bayonet lug that Numrich says are for the Universal. It's here and it doesn't fit. The inner diameter of the band is just a tad too small for it to fit and slide smoothly over the barrel. I could try ordering one of the other three but I suspect they are all sized to GI issue barrel specs and aren't really meant for the universal. Next step is to call them and ask them to check the inner diameter of the other three they offer to see if any of them will fit over a 5/8" diameter barrel. At the same time, I will continue to search in hopes of finding one from another source that will fit. In a perfect world, I will stumble upon an original Universal Part # 510 B which is the one that I wish they had put on my carbine. In the end, I am already suspecting that all of the above will come to naught. So, I am already in the process of figuring out how to hone out the one I have from Numrich to make it fit without ruining it in the process. I have already begun using my Dremel with a sanding drum and it will be a slow process but it looks promising. As for the handguard, jackp1028 was exactly correct. I had already ordered an unfinished handguard from Boyd's Gunstocks, and it is a nice piece. But, it doesn't fit. Under the handguard on the Universal, there is a larger square barrel that extends well forward almost to the end of the handguard. A USGI spec wood one would have to be carved out to fit and the metal tab at the receiver end of the hand guard would have to be removed, repositioned, and riveted or screwed back in. The overall length is good. So, that's on the to do list right after I've finished honing out the barrel band. Fingers crossed. With any luck, I'll get it done this weekend or next. Rich aka TwoZero
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TwoZero
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twozero
Recruit Joined: Jun 03 2018 Location: Oakley, CA Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Well, it took just a bit longer than the next couple of weekends, but my project is finally done. It is now August 17th, and not being a trained gunsmith or having those kinds of tools in my shop, it got a bit more complicated than I expected. But, slow, steady, and careful got it done.
My goal was to take my humble, totally stock Universal, and modify its exterior appearance to more closely resemble a G.I. spec carbine. I just like the look of the G.I. spec and have never been crazy about the vented metal hand guard or the absence of a bayonet lug on the Universal. My Universal will never be a G.I. spec carbine and I have no desire to ever sell it let alone try to pass it off as something it is not. I just wanted to take a carbine I bought new for less than $100 45 years ago, and make it look like a G.I. spec carbine which would cost significantly more to acquire nowadays. Two months later, I am finally done. You can judge the results for yourself from the enclosed pics. On the left is a stock Universal which mine looked like originally. On the right is my Universal as it now appears today. The metal hand guard has been replaced with a wood one acquired in finished sanded but unstained form from Boyd's. The underside had to be routed out to clear the larger workings of the Universal, and it has been stained and varnished to match. The original barrel band which did not have a bayonet lug has been replaced by an aftermarket piece from Numrich which, as you can see, does have the bayonet lug. This was the tough part. I would have much preferred to simply replace the original short barrel band (Universal part # 510 with no bayonet lug) with a Universal #510 B which was offered on some production models and did have the G.I. spec bayonet lug. But, finding a source of Universal parts proved to be pretty much impossible. So, I bought the one from Numrich and figured out how to machine it out to fit the slightly larger O.D of the Universal barrel. Basically, I made a jig out of MDF and wood screws to hold the new band perfectly vertical and still on my drill press and then very carefully reamed it out with a drill bit and the small drum sander on my Dremel. Doing all this meant removing the front sight assembly in order to switch the barrel bands. This was made possible with the Front Sight Removal Tool and the Front Sight Installation Tool made by Magnum and sold on Amazon.com. Magnum makes two different removal tools; one machined to fit all G.I. spec carbines, and a custom one to fit the larger barrel O.D. of the Universal. So, if you decide to do this to your Universal, be sure to ask for the correct version. The sight installation tool, on the other hand, only comes in one version which Magnum says will fit all M-1 carbines including the Universal. But, sadly, that is not true, the tool does NOT come ready to use on the Universal. But, it can be machined out to do the job. It just takes extra time. Anyhow, its done. I like the result. |
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TwoZero
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 2949 |
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twozero, Looks like you did a really good job upgrading your Universal. Sounds like you not only enjoyed working on your carbine but also learned some things in the process. Bottom line and the most important thing is what you said in your last sentence "I like the results". Now go out and shoot it!!
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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