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Searching for info on Dutch .30M1 use |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Here is a picture I found on the Dutch United Nations detachement that served in Korea: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/memorix/319f5cd4-eb18-11df-a391-13966e870614
Translation of the commented text: " Collection: photoprints of the Royal Army Object number: 2155_502276 Description: Two soldiers of the engineering batallion of the Dutch Detachment United Nations in Korea (left soldier Gerritsen, right soldier van Gom or Daams) near a mine-warning sign Place: South-Korea Date: around 1952" You can see they are holding carbines. So the engineers also used those in Korea. |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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TE=painter777]Picture pulled from The Nederlands Fotomuseum.
Weapon Stash... Charlie-Painter777 Dutch resistance member hiding rocket launchers in a baby carriage for transport, Amsterdam 1945 Picture also from Nederlands Fotomuseum. Baby stroller (Bram? or Pram?) used to hide weapons.. etc. Again from the Dutch Resistance Museum.. Also found the link to the picture of the weapons stash: Here some extra information on the weapons droppings: http://www.johannesterhorst.nl/wapendroppings_en_pilotenhulp |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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And here a picture of Dutch Marines on Soerabaja (Indonesia): http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120084565
And here Dutch Marines training on the Leusderheide: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120088224 Date: March 1946 Carbine shooting on the Soorong range around 1960: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120088605 Politionele actie (Politional action) operation product 21-7-1947: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107006363 Training landing on the Dutch island Texel 1956: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107007867 Marine machinegun group on Soerabaja 20-6-1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008729 Marine near demolished railway bridge, Soerabaja, 1946-11: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008817 Marines in cover, Soerabaja, 1946-11-25: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008825 Marines machinegun crew, Soerabaja, 1946-01-06: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008875 Marines patrol Soerabaja 1947-01-08 http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008877 Marines machine gun crew Soerabaja 1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008887 Lots and lots of more Dutch use of the .30M1 by the marienes pictures to be found on this specific site, I'll search through it completely but there is much much more!
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Marines near Porong 1947-01-27: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008888
Marine medic on patrol, Soerabaja, 1947-03: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107009283 First politional action, Malang, 1947-07-31 http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008961 Mine clearance, Soerabaja, 1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107009096 Anti tank gun, Soerabaja, 1946-07-04: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107009134 Anti tank gun, Boedoengsari, 1946-07-04: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107009135 Bridge in mounaineous area, Pasirian, 1947-08-20: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107010674 |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Crossing Kali, Soerabaja, 1946-11: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107010792
Counting brass on the range of Biak: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107022054 A police officer from the "Mobiele politie" (en: mobile police) shows his carbine, Sterrengebergte Suriname, 1959: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107026067 Troop transport with marine of marine patrol on Harley Davidson with .30M1 on his back, Curacao, 1953: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107025071 4 marines in a truck of the marine brigade, 1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107027820 Flag of 3rd storm-platoon of a batallion of the marine brigade, 1945: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107028246 6 marines of the marine brigade lying in the grass with their carbines, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107029100 Marines mortar crew, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107029120 3 marines walking on a rural road during a exercise on Curacao, 1961: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038191 March training Aruba, 1952: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038266 New supplies during an excercise on Aruba, 1952: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038276 81mm mortar crew in Indonesia 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038962 Ration distribution during a patrol in New-Guinea, 1961: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038894 Marines in action at the Etnabaai, New-Guinea, 1954: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107039361 Marines on queensday (queens birthday), Soerabaja, 1946-08-31: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107039945 Snake and carbine, New-Guinea, 1960-1962: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107039990 2 reserve officers in training 1950-1951: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041294 3.7cm Anti-tank gun, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107040385 Hunting peacock in free time, Indonesia, 1946-1947: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107040888 Marine in Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041391 Marines in action on bicycles, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041375 Marines searching a house, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041412 Brengun carrier with 3.7cm gun on shooting range, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041507 7 marines at Kampong, Indonesia, 1947: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107043532 Judging from this, it can be concluded, that the Dutch Marines very - very extensively used the .30M1 in the former Dutch colonies. |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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sleeplessnashadow
Admin Group Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Sorry it took so long to add this. Would have liked to have posted it right under the one you found in the museum in The Netherlands.
Back in August 2017 while wandering the internet in search of infrared scope images I came across the website of a museum in Koblenz, Germany under the command structure of the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw). I contacted the museum and received a reply included below as the second image. (To view a larger version click on the image) Translated: "In my exhibition the "Sniperscope" type US M 1101 can be seen. It was produced by Philips Usfa in Eindhoven, The Netherlands. The device was tested for the Bundeswehr, but not introduced." The web page is located at: https://www.vffwts.de/ein-einblick.html To find the image on the website scroll down the page to the section entitled: Handfeuerwaffen, Gewehre und Maschinenwaffen / 31 Bilder: Lots of interesting photos to spend a lot of time with...... Jim |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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What an interesting find Jim! I'll use this for my research project.
I sure hope that I can find more about the Dutch use of the .30M1. Found a police officer that actually used it and still has his own carbine in his posession, so I'll interview him and make some pictures. I also found out that my uncle was a garand sniper in New Guinea and always had a few local servicemen at his side armed with .30M1s for protection, so I'll interview him also. Then I have 2 interviews of people with actual hands on experience. I'll also search in my shooting club, since it is a former Dutch Marines shooting club and many of them used this carbine in actual service (at least the older guys).
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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sleeplessnashadow
Admin Group Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Patrick
I went back over the websites where I thought I saw Dutch soldiers with M1 carbines but couldn't find them again. The ANZAC museum in Canberra has an online photo archives. This is where I though I saw them but reviewing it I find only Australians and New Zealanders with M1 carbines during the Malaysian civil war. I think you'll find those who used the M1 Carbines either really liked them or really hated them. This is kind of a universal theme worldwide with no political boundaries. My personal opinion is use the right tool for the job at hand. The carbine does what it was designed to do. It has it strengths and weaknesses but so does the M1 Garand and every other small arm. No one rifles fits all occasions. As U.S. troops discovered with the M4's in Afghanistan vs Iraq. If you get the time to share some of the stories you hear and find we'd be very interested in them here. If I find more related to the Dutch and M1 Carbines at any point in the future I'll add it here. Suggestion. You may try an e-mail to the curator at the Koblenz museum and ask if the Bundeswehr used anything else carbine related that was made in The Netherlands. They have quite a collection and likley have just as much in storage as they do on display, if not more. Jim |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll be in the German Eifel region end of May/beginning of Juni for holidays, so I'll pay that museum a visit because I'm nearby.
You are right, you need the right rifle for the right job. That is why many squads were using both the Garand and the .30M1. If you find anything related to the Dutch .30M1 use, pics, stories, links.....keep them posted here in this topic, then we can keep it in 1 place so it is easier for other people to find it. Last monday we had a .30M1 club match at our club. Many veteran Marines shot the .30M1 again (our club originated as a veteran-marine club). I hear none of them ever complaining about this rifle but I'll ask them in more detail for their personal experiences.
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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DonFromTexas
Recruit Joined: Apr 06 2018 Location: La Feria Texas Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Most interesting thread comments. I lived in Europe for 10 years, and was in the US Army for 20 years, and owned a WLA Harley as well. My research never found any in your area, most were in Africa and were dumped in the ocean at the end of the war, some units brought them back to the USA, very few. You can PM me if you have any information as to how any WLAs got to your area.
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Retired US Army Officer
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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A friend of mine recently bought a 1944 WLC, factory original, not a WLA that was modified for consumer use. I saw pictures of fields full with stacked liberators after the war.
Prices went up considerably, about 25 years ago you could find one for 2500 euro's, now they go for 12.500 euro's. Here is a site of a Belgian guy with an enormous amount of WLA info and pictures: http://www.theliberator.be/liberator1.htm
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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DonFromTexas
Recruit Joined: Apr 06 2018 Location: La Feria Texas Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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It was too early for my brain to be awake. I had both WLA and XA Harleys, and helf awake I confused the two. The WLA was everywhere, the XA was far more scarce and was what I was speaking of. Sorry about that.
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Retired US Army Officer
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Yes indeed, the XA is very rare, also here in Holland, never every actually saw one, but plenty of WLA's. It looks to me as if Harley tried to copy the engine that BMW used for their German army motorcycles.
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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DonFromTexas
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The story we collectors used was that it was copied off a captured R12 BMW. There were a number of parts that were exact R12 parts, I recalled for instance the clutch disc was the same as R12.
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Retired US Army Officer
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I discovered recently that the Koninklijke Marechaussee (Royal Military Police) also used the .30M1.
I found a picture here: http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/weergave/detail/q/id/ac79226e-d0b4-102d-bcf8-003048976d84 The description states: Hijacking of the Indonesian Consulate Amsterdam, roadblock with sandbags and armored personnel carriers in the neighborhood of the consulate. Date: 11 december 1975 Location: Amsterdam Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Here is another one:
http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/weergave/detail/start/4/tstart/0/q/zoekterm/karabijn Description: Large police force clears residential area where Moluk people live in Vaassen, the ME police are holding their carbines. Date: 14th October 1976 Location: Molukken, Vaassen Photographer: Verhoeff, Bert / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief And here another one with the ME Police: Description: Mobile Unit with carbines Date: 3rd March 1980 Photographer: Dijk, Hans van / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief And here another one: http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/start/11/weergave/detail/tstart/0/q/zoekterm/karabijn Description: Guarding the main police station in Utrecht because of treats of the German terrorists (RAF Rote Armee Fraktion). A police officer with helmet checks the bag of a visitor. A 2nd officer, with carbine, overwatches. Location: Utrecht Date: 26th September 1977. Copyright: Nationaal Archief Here is one of the police using carbines: Description: Demonstrations, Angry farmers demonstrate against the measures of the agricultural office. In the neighborhood of Vaassen many police officers, armed with carbines, stopped the farmers and forced them to sit on the road for many hours. Location: Vaassen Date: 26th september 1961 Photographer: Co Zeijlemaker Copyright: Nationaal Archief And here another one of the same event: Description: Demonstration of Free Farmers on the main road from Epe-Vaassen, in the front there is a police officer with carbine. Date: 27th september 1961 Location: Vaassen Photographer: Rossem, Wim van / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief
Description: Demonstration Free Farmers on the main road from Epe-Vaassen, police armed with carbines. Date: 26th September 1961 Location: Vaassen Photographer: Lindeboom, Henk / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/start/27/weergave/detail/tstart/0/q/zoekterm/karabijn
Description: Bank robbery in Rotterdam, police officers armed with carbines search the bushes in the neighborhood Date: 13th June 1966 Location: Rotterdam Photographer: Voets, Jan / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: Security guard near El Al airplane on Schiphol: 2 police officers armed with carbines guard the airplane. Date: 8th September 1969 Photographer: Koch, Eric / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: Extra security measures on Schiphol, police officers with carbines Date: 11th september 1972 Location: Schiphol Photographer: Peters, Hans / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: Robbers of post office take family hostage in a farm in Deil, police with carbine in the night Date: 30th January 1973 Location: Deil Photographer: Peters, Hans / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Here a very unique one: Description: Indonesian Consulate Amsterdam is hijacked; a rack with carbines is being brought Date: 11th December 1975 Location: Amsterdam Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo, Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: Large police force clears Moluk residential area in Vaassen; police shooting with carbines Date: 14th October 1976 Location: Molukken, Vaasssen Photographer: Verhoeff, Bert / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: Police officers (with carbine) guard Garuda Airlines because of hijackings. Date: 23th May 1977 Photographer: Bogaerts, Rob / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief Description: ME, tanks and armored personnel carriers clear barricades around squatted building in Vondelbuurt Amsterdam. Date: Februari 1980 Location: Amsterdam Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo Copyright: Nationaal Archief The research project continues, I sure hope I get some extra space on the forum so I can post the pictures also so you don't have to click on the links. |
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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Lupus Dei
Hard Corps Club Secretary Emeritus Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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Do not delete pictures from file manager! I have upped your storage space. Please do continue to post these wonderful pictures.
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Louis Dey
Admin www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Thanks for the extra space for my research project. I was able to post the pictures of the links so it is easier to see for the topic readers.
The "Dutch forces .30M1 use" project continues.
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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patrickduis
On Point Joined: Jan 12 2016 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Found a picture today on a Dutch enlisted men facebook group. This is probably in the 60's or maybe 70's (Natres Dutch army reserve)
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Various Inlands, Underwoods, I.B.M.s and an NPM
NVBIW, NVWHT, NVBMB, KNSA member Conservator Military Historical Museum Achtmaal U.S. 104th I.D. Timberwolves www.militairhistorischmuseumachtmaal.nl |
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