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Searching for info on Dutch .30M1 use

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patrickduis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2018 at 8:31am
Here is a picture I found on the Dutch United Nations detachement that served in Korea: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/memorix/319f5cd4-eb18-11df-a391-13966e870614



Translation of the commented text:
"
Collection: photoprints of the Royal Army
Object number: 2155_502276
Description: Two soldiers of the engineering batallion of the Dutch Detachment United Nations in Korea (left soldier Gerritsen, right soldier van Gom or Daams) near a mine-warning sign
Place: South-Korea
Date: around 1952"

You can see they are holding carbines. So the engineers also used those in Korea.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2018 at 8:56am
    TE=painter777]Picture pulled from The Nederlands Fotomuseum.
    Weapon Stash...

    Charlie-Painter777



    Dutch resistance member hiding rocket launchers in a baby carriage for transport, Amsterdam 1945
    Picture also from Nederlands Fotomuseum.



    Baby stroller (Bram? or Pram?) used to hide weapons.. etc.



    Again from the Dutch Resistance Museum..


    [/QUOTE]

    Also found the link to the picture of the weapons stash:


    Here some extra information on the weapons droppings: http://www.johannesterhorst.nl/wapendroppings_en_pilotenhulp


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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2018 at 9:34am
    And here a picture of Dutch Marines on Soerabaja (Indonesia): http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120084565


    And here Dutch Marines training on the Leusderheide: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120088224
    Date: March 1946




    Carbine shooting on the Soorong range around 1960: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120088605


    Politionele actie (Politional action) operation product 21-7-1947: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107006363






    Marine near demolished railway bridge, Soerabaja, 1946-11: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008817









    Marines machine gun crew Soerabaja 1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107008887


    Lots and lots of more Dutch use of the .30M1 by the marienes pictures to be found on this specific site, I'll search through it completely but there is much much more!
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2018 at 9:54am
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2018 at 10:40am
    Crossing Kali, Soerabaja, 1946-11: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107010792




    A police officer from the "Mobiele politie" (en: mobile police) shows his carbine, Sterrengebergte Suriname, 1959: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107026067


    Troop transport with marine of marine patrol on Harley Davidson with .30M1 on his back, Curacao, 1953: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107025071


    4 marines in a truck of the marine brigade, 1946: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107027820


    Flag of 3rd storm-platoon of a batallion of the marine brigade, 1945: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107028246


    6 marines of the marine brigade lying in the grass with their carbines, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107029100




    3 marines walking on a rural road during a exercise on Curacao, 1961: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038191









    Ration distribution during a patrol in New-Guinea, 1961: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107038894


    Marines in action at the Etnabaai, New-Guinea, 1954: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107039361


    Marines on queensday (queens birthday), Soerabaja, 1946-08-31: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107039945









    Hunting peacock in free time, Indonesia, 1946-1947: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107040888




    Marines in action on bicycles, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041375




    Brengun carrier with 3.7cm gun on shooting range, Indonesia, 1946-1949: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=107041507





    Judging from this, it can be concluded, that the Dutch Marines very - very extensively used the .30M1 in the former Dutch colonies.




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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 22 2018 at 2:04am
    Sorry it took so long to add this. Would have liked to have posted it right under the one you found in the museum in The Netherlands.

    Back in August 2017 while wandering the internet in search of infrared scope images I came across the website of a museum in Koblenz, Germany under the command structure of the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw).

    I contacted the museum and received a reply included below as the second image.

    (To view a larger version click on the image)









    Translated:

    "In my exhibition the "Sniperscope" type US M 1101 can be seen. It was produced by Philips Usfa in Eindhoven, The Netherlands. The device was tested for the Bundeswehr, but not introduced."

    The web page is located at:

    https://www.vffwts.de/ein-einblick.html

    To find the image on the website scroll down the page to the section entitled:

    Handfeuerwaffen, Gewehre und Maschinenwaffen / 31 Bilder:

    Lots of interesting photos to spend a lot of time with......

    Jim


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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 23 2018 at 3:36am
    What an interesting find Jim! I'll use this for my research project.

    I sure hope that I can find more about the Dutch use of the .30M1. Found a police officer that actually used it and still has his own carbine in his posession, so I'll interview him and make some pictures. I also found out that my uncle was a garand sniper in New Guinea and always had a few local servicemen at his side armed with .30M1s for protection, so I'll interview him also. Then I have 2 interviews of people with actual hands on experience.
    I'll also search in my shooting club, since it is a former Dutch Marines shooting club and many of them used this carbine in actual service (at least the older guys).
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 23 2018 at 4:48am
    Patrick

    I went back over the websites where I thought I saw Dutch soldiers with M1 carbines but couldn't find them again.

    The ANZAC museum in Canberra has an online photo archives. This is where I though I saw them but reviewing it I find only Australians and New Zealanders with M1 carbines during the Malaysian civil war.

    I think you'll find those who used the M1 Carbines either really liked them or really hated them. This is kind of a universal theme worldwide with no political boundaries.

    My personal opinion is use the right tool for the job at hand. The carbine does what it was designed to do. It has it strengths and weaknesses but so does the M1 Garand and every other small arm. No one rifles fits all occasions. As U.S. troops discovered with the M4's in Afghanistan vs Iraq.

    If you get the time to share some of the stories you hear and find we'd be very interested in them here.

    If I find more related to the Dutch and M1 Carbines at any point in the future I'll add it here.

    Suggestion. You may try an e-mail to the curator at the Koblenz museum and ask if the Bundeswehr used anything else carbine related that was made in The Netherlands. They have quite a collection and likley have just as much in storage as they do on display, if not more.

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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 4:13am
    Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll be in the German Eifel region end of May/beginning of Juni for holidays, so I'll pay that museum a visit because I'm nearby.

    You are right, you need the right rifle for the right job. That is why many squads were using both the Garand and the .30M1. 

    If you find anything related to the Dutch .30M1 use, pics, stories, links.....keep them posted here in this topic, then we can keep it in 1 place so it is easier for other people to find it.

    Last monday we had a .30M1 club match at our club. Many veteran Marines shot the .30M1 again (our club originated as a veteran-marine club). I hear none of them ever complaining about this rifle but I'll ask them in more detail for their personal experiences.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFromTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 9:41am
    Most interesting thread comments.  I lived in Europe for 10 years, and was in the US Army for 20 years, and owned a WLA Harley as well.  My research never found any in your area, most were in Africa and were dumped in the ocean at the end of the war, some units brought them back to the USA, very few.  You can PM me if you have any information as to how any WLAs got to your area.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 9:56am
    A friend of mine recently bought a 1944 WLC, factory original, not a WLA that was modified for consumer use. I saw pictures of fields full with stacked liberators after the war.
    Prices went up considerably, about 25 years ago you could find one for 2500 euro's, now they go for 12.500 euro's. 

    Here is a site of a Belgian guy with an enormous amount of WLA info and pictures: http://www.theliberator.be/liberator1.htm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFromTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 10:31am
    It was too early for my brain to be awake.  I had both WLA and XA Harleys, and helf awake I confused the two.  The WLA was everywhere, the XA was far more scarce and was what I was speaking of.  Sorry about that.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 10:39am
    Yes indeed, the XA is very rare, also here in Holland, never every actually saw one, but plenty of WLA's. It looks to me as if Harley tried to copy the engine that BMW used for their German army motorcycles.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFromTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2018 at 2:23pm
    The story we collectors used was that it was copied off a captured R12 BMW.  There were a number of parts that were exact R12 parts, I recalled for instance the clutch disc was the same as R12.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2018 at 8:18am
    I discovered recently that the Koninklijke Marechaussee (Royal Military Police) also used the .30M1.



    The description states:
    Hijacking of the Indonesian Consulate Amsterdam, roadblock with sandbags and armored personnel carriers in the neighborhood of the consulate. 
    Date: 11 december 1975
    Location: Amsterdam
    Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2018 at 8:23am
    Here is another one: 
    http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/weergave/detail/start/4/tstart/0/q/zoekterm/karabijn

    Description:
    Large police force clears residential area where Moluk people live in Vaassen, the ME police are holding their carbines.
    Date: 14th October 1976
    Location: Molukken, Vaassen
    Photographer: Verhoeff, Bert / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

    And here another one with the ME Police: 

    Description: Mobile Unit with carbines
    Date: 3rd March 1980
    Photographer:  Dijk, Hans van / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description: Guarding the main police station in Utrecht because of treats of the German terrorists (RAF Rote Armee Fraktion). A police officer with helmet checks the bag of a visitor. A 2nd officer, with carbine, overwatches.
    Location: Utrecht
    Date: 26th September 1977.
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

    Here is one of the police using carbines:

    Description: Demonstrations, Angry farmers demonstrate against the measures of the agricultural office. In the neighborhood of Vaassen many police officers, armed with carbines, stopped the farmers and forced them to sit on the road for many hours. 
    Location: Vaassen
    Date: 26th september 1961
    Photographer: Co Zeijlemaker
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

    And here another one of the same event:

    Description: 
    Demonstration of Free Farmers on the main road from Epe-Vaassen, in the front there is a police officer with carbine.
    Date: 27th september 1961
    Location: Vaassen
    Photographer: Rossem, Wim van / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief
    Demonstration Free Farmers on the main road from Epe-Vaassen, police armed with carbines.
    Date: 26th September 1961
    Location: Vaassen
    Photographer: Lindeboom, Henk / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2018 at 8:46am
    http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbeeldingen/fotocollectie/zoeken/start/27/weergave/detail/tstart/0/q/zoekterm/karabijn

    Description:
    Bank robbery in Rotterdam, police officers armed with carbines search the bushes in the neighborhood
    Date: 13th June 1966
    Location: Rotterdam
    Photographer: Voets, Jan / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description: 
    Security guard near El Al airplane on Schiphol: 2 police officers armed with carbines guard the airplane.
    Date: 8th September 1969
    Photographer: Koch, Eric / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description:
    Extra security measures on Schiphol, police officers with carbines
    Date: 11th september 1972
    Location: Schiphol
    Photographer: Peters, Hans / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description:
    Robbers of post office take family hostage in a farm in Deil, police with carbine in the night
    Date: 30th January 1973
    Location: Deil
    Photographer: Peters, Hans / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

    Here a very unique one:

    Description:
    Indonesian Consulate Amsterdam is hijacked; a rack with carbines is being brought 
    Date: 11th December 1975
    Location: Amsterdam
    Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo, 
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief




    Description: Large police force clears Moluk residential area in Vaassen; police shooting with carbines
    Date: 14th October 1976
    Location: Molukken, Vaasssen
    Photographer: Verhoeff, Bert / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description: Police officers (with carbine) guard Garuda Airlines because of hijackings.
    Date: 23th May 1977
    Photographer: Bogaerts, Rob / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief


    Description:
    ME, tanks and armored personnel carriers clear barricades around squatted building in Vondelbuurt Amsterdam.
    Date: Februari 1980
    Location: Amsterdam
    Photographer: Croes, Rob C. / Anefo
    Copyright: Nationaal Archief

    The research project continues, I sure hope I get some extra space on the forum so I can post the pictures also so you don't have to click on the links. 

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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lupus Dei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2018 at 11:36am
    Originally posted by patrickduis patrickduis wrote:

    • I unfortunately cannot post more pictures since my filemanager exceeds 10Mb and I am afraid when I delete pictures in the filemanager, they are also deleted from the forum.

     
    Do not delete pictures from file manager! I have upped your storage space. Please do continue to post these wonderful pictures.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2018 at 3:09pm
    Thanks for the extra space for my research project. I was able to post the pictures of the links so it is easier to see for the topic readers.

    The "Dutch forces .30M1 use" project continues.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2019 at 6:53am
    Found a picture today on a Dutch enlisted men facebook group. This is probably in the 60's or maybe 70's (Natres Dutch army reserve)

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