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Inland XB 271 |
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welbytwo 
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Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 803 |
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 Posted: Feb 23 2018 at 10:31pm |
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Armaloy??? memory says was some odd metal attempted to be used by inland early on--also I have had what I thought was cherry stock marked IO-it had cross cannons on right side-I sold it to Bolo7 from memory
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W5USMC
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Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2959 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2018 at 11:01pm |
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Trigger housing has beveled corners on back of rear lug, Type I or II?
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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m1a1fan
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Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2018 at 11:02pm |
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ArmaSteel...perhaps. Haven't been able to find a NDE method of testing it.
https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs/gm-heritage-archive/historical-brochures/Manufacturing_Facilities/ArmaSteel_and_Malleable-Iron-Castings.pdf Now I'm having second thought about the stock. Did not know Inland made cherry stocks. Will take more pictures of the wood to show close ups of the grain especially on the underside and inside. |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Feb 23 2018 at 11:41pm |
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Type 1
 Hammer (I-I) Sear (RI) Trigger (unmarked) Slide T6 - PI underlined (inside) 7161843 (outside) with the letter Q 
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kar6666
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Joined: Jan 05 2016 Location: California, Mo Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Mar 22 2018 at 11:08am |
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I remember seeing a similar carbine at a gunshow about 20 years ago. Bob Simpson had it you know "Simpson Lugers". The color of the TG turned me off real quick. I was never interested much by presentation carbines anyway as I didn't feel like there was much to be learned from them.
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NewScotlander
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Posted: Mar 22 2018 at 3:19pm |
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It's a very early Inland receiver and barrel assembly. Probably in the double digits. See how the letters in "INLAND DIV." on receiver don't line up? I have photos of serial numbers 23 and 32 that are uneven in the same way while 92 and up are even. Could you post more photos of the right, bottom and back side of the receiver?
Nice find. BTW. Do you know who the carbine was originally supposed to be presented to? If you don't, PM me. |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Mar 22 2018 at 6:02pm |
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@NewScotlander: Thanks. Have received info from the club about the history of it (thank you to all who have provided information).
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NewScotlander
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Posted: Mar 22 2018 at 6:42pm |
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Thanks. Only the very early Inland Receivers have the round mill cut that is only 1/4 inch from the rear of the receiver. There were not many made like that (probably less than one hundred) as serial number 92 is 3/4 inch (number 18, 23 and 32 are 1/4 inch).
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Posted: Mar 23 2018 at 4:58pm |
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Overton was known for his wood carvings. Built up a company on those skills, employed 65-75 men full time in the early days. Grabbed up more space and used over 130,000 sq ft, while employing nearly 300.
In 1925: The factory now uses over a quarter of million feet of lumber monthly; piano hammer moldings are produced at the rate of 800 sets a day; and over a million and a half phonograph legs are made yearly. Known for fine ornamental hand carved works, and taking on special orders. Piano benches, carved table legs, milled trim etc. Being located in South Haven gave them access to shipments of wood from nearly any country. A link to some SE Overton History: https://presto.arcade-museum.com/PRESTO-1925-2017/index.php?page_no=18 Cherry was tried/tested for Carbine stocks but wasn't preferred. But if one is making a presentation carbine and happens to have a stock with the figure in it like the one above, Why not use it? JMO.. But in my nearly 40 years of finishing most any wood you'd run across.. That stock is Cherry, and beautiful at that. Charlie-Painter777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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tenOCEE
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Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 9:33am |
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It looks like a Bavarian rework to me. Plumb trigger housing and shiny black refinish.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4657 |
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Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 2:02pm |
So here is the thing, Yes we see plumb housings on some Bavarians. Does that mean all plum THs are Bavarian refinish? Saginaw Malleable Iron Div of Gm was a grey iron foundry which produced parts for the war effort using their "Armasteel" Armasteel castings were a tremendous time saver as you could make parts in one piece that traditionally was several pieces put together. Another time and cost savings factor was not having to machine out heavy billets with a tremendous scrap rate. Remember there were items not allowed to be produced during the war as raw materials were needed for the war effort. Less scrap was (and is) a good thing. Saginaw Steering Gear division produced the .30 cal 191a4 machine gun as well as other war items. Armasteel was used for some parts such as back plate/grip and I believe the bottom plate the big brother of the 1919a4 war the M2HB heavy machine gun in .50 cal. The front truninon used a 20 lb forging which was machined away to 6lbs. An Armasteel casting started at less then 9 lbs. They also made the barrel support from Armasteel. The BAR also utilized Armasteel in its receiver and trigger housing. Whats the reason I blather about Armasteel ? Well many of those parts I mention have been observed plumb or reddish in color. Parkerizing was a relatively new process. It was found in production that if the tanks cooled overnight that in morning the first few batches of parkerized parts would have this color shift. I think this was due to the amount of free acids that separated out of the solution. As the tanks cooked the color improved But what does this have to do with the carbine? Well..... If you look in War Baby you will see that they experimented with Armasteel grade A parts. they made up some major components such as slide, bolt, hammer, trigger, sear, mag catch, front sight etc and sent off for testing. They found Armasteel to be suitable for some parts if a further treatment was done on parts. However the cost savings was negligible so was not done. One part was found not to need additional treatment and was approved for use, the trigger housing!  Were any Armasteel THs used broadly in production???? Well we may never know the whole story, as with many things carbine, However if you look at the sole supplier of trigger housing castings for Saginaw Steering Gear Div, Saginaw you will find that it was Saginaw Malleable Iron Div. In my opinion this carbine is special and I can only conjure and speculate what and why it is what it is. But cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Now look closely on the TH on the presentation gun. Notice anything? Notice two things? But wait, didn't the Bavarians blue the housings? Weren't some of the presentations found in a high polish and blued? ... Yes, but not always, and Yes! It turns out that certain metal compositions you need blue in a different manor or you wind up with a plum color. This I have not explored why this is...yet., But it is believed it had to do with the temperature of the salt bath. *EDIT* to add: How many carbines have been corrected because of a plum housing? I have two Inland housings in plum. One I believe may be as left the factory due to the machining marks not being polished or heavily blasted. Did Inland, a Division of GM use Armasteel and we just do not know about it? |
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tenOCEE
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Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 4:07pm |
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In all honesty, I doubt it's a Bavarian, but it has that similar appearance and that was presented as tangential consideration. Your research is pretty interesting on the Arma Steel. Might be totally off topic but the only Arma parts I know that I have are BAR trigger housings and receiver cuts...oh, and a couple of 428 Pontiac cranks.
Sorta related on the Bavarian realm; deldriver has seen a Carbine I have. It's a transitional Inland he feels might have been a Rural Police gun with the marking scrubbed. It's got a plum Inland type III housing with oil hole mod which had an S'G' fatboy and those are the only hammer marks present. The barrel has a type II AS band, but for certain has an import mark on the bottom of the barrel. |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 5:15pm |
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@ Dr. Flip: Are any of the ArmaSteel parts you have marked? Not proof by any means but just wondering if they have any letters on them.
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Apr 07 2018 at 9:11pm |
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@new2, great research! Thanks for the information. Have been looking into the A marking on the trigger housing. A long shot, but perhaps the font is unique to Saginaw Metal or ArmaSteel? The trigger housing does have lines in it from casting and strange rough areas.
@painter and Charles - When you look at the wood, what tells you it's cherry .vs black walnut? Trying to learn what to look for. Thx. Charles, looking forward to a lesson or two next time we meet. |
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Charles
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Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2018 at 2:23pm |
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As I mentioned earlier, I have a nice piece of black American walnut with three coats of BLO. I am still looking for a choice piece of cherry for a sample.
Will keep you advised. Charles |
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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Nevinator
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Posted: Apr 09 2018 at 9:54am |
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Small reference made to Arma Steel on page 11 of the below document.
http://www.gunneyg.info/pdfs/M1_carbine_Aberdeen_1944.pdf |
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tenOCEE
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Posted: Apr 09 2018 at 7:46pm |
That's a good thought. Just saw this question, but this has a typical Parked appearance.   |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Apr 09 2018 at 7:50pm |
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Thanks Doc. Was wondering about the font and appearance of the A in ArmaSteel compared with the one on the XB trigger housing.
It probably deserves its own thread, but bonus points to anyone who notices another familiar mark in the pictures provided by Dr. Flip. |
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kar6666
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Posted: Apr 09 2018 at 7:54pm |
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Are you talking about the circle A /
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tenOCEE
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Posted: Apr 09 2018 at 8:02pm |
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The same casting you see in the butt plates. The snow flake would be the same imprint you're talking about m1?
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tenOCEE wrote: