The Carbine Collectors Club

Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine


Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > General Discussion > Parts Markings
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


3 in Circle IP Receiver Marking ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2021 at 11:20am
You had asked about the finish.

Parkerizing is a phosphate finish. There were many companies with different formulas or process.
Phosphate finishes had a wide variety of shades that range from a silvery gray to black.

We see some Bavarian returns that have been blued, others phosphate finished.
The Italian returns were a black phosphate. I do not know if all were.

With the mysterious 3 in circle marking we see different finishes. If you look at the Inland above your picture it appears to be an original black oxide finish, which is something Inland did early on before switching to a phosphate coating.
The we see some gray phosphate carbines with the 3 in circle.

It could be that whatever agency had them did the refinishing or it could have been an importer or even a subsequent owner.

Back to Top
W5USMC View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2017
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 2949
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2022 at 5:08pm
Another Circled 3, on GB now from RTI.
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member
Back to Top
stevehowa View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2022
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stevehowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2022 at 12:28am
3 in circle IP Receiver Marking.  Also have a T stamped next to US 30 Carbine that seems out of place.  
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2022 at 7:17am
Originally posted by stevehowa stevehowa wrote:

  Also have a T stamped next to US 30 Carbine that seems out of place. 


Can you post a pic?
Back to Top
stevehowa View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2022
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stevehowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2022 at 7:40am
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2022 at 6:11pm
Thank you Steve, That is a new one for me!
Back to Top
stevehowa View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2022
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevehowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2022 at 8:41pm
Thank you for having a look.  I have been searching for a similar mark without success.   
Back to Top
Pro Libertate View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jun 19 2021
Location: Hayden, ID
Status: Offline
Points: 348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2022 at 4:23pm
I recently purchased an Inland (serial #6710250) with a circled “3” behind the serial. There’s also an inverted/sideways “N” on the receiver, just above the chamber. I don’t know if it’s significant or not, but there’s also a sideways “2” on the right side of the receiver. “CAI ST A VT” import stamp on bottom of barrel, approximately 1” forward of the bayonet lug.






Eric
NRA Life Member
NRA-Certified RSO
Project Appleseed “Rifleman”

When asked by the wife, "Just how many guns do you need?" the answer is always, "Just one more, honey... just one more!"
Back to Top
Bigheavy31 View Drop Down
On Point
On Point


Joined: Aug 24 2020
Location: Asheville NC
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigheavy31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2022 at 8:19pm
Took another look at my “3” marked S’G’- mine also has an odd mark near the barrel Mount ring. Might be a partial T.



Edited by W5USMC - Nov 10 2022 at 9:10pm
Back to Top
gglithox View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Apr 19 2019
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gglithox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2023 at 11:40am
I'm resurrecting this old post in hopes of any new information about the circled 3 mystery.

I just picked up an 8/43 Saginaw S'G' #1830210 that has the circled 3 on the rear of the receiver. There is also an upside down P mark on the front of the receiver next to CAL. and imported by CAI ST. ALB VT. It still has a lot of early feature parts, T1 rear sight marked B-S'G', T1A barrel band marked U and UN on swivel (NPM), Grand Rapids front sight marked on blade with a 4, operating slide SG, flat bolt NPM N12 and Winchester trigger housing with Inland internals. There are no Bavarian markings or scrubbed areas. The finish is darker than normal, almost black if that is a clue. It came in an Inland T1 I stock with IO, flaming bomb and 9 stamped in the sling well.

 






Back to Top
Smokpole View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Oct 21 2019
Location: Madison ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1052
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2023 at 7:32pm
The more I see of these, the more I think they might be exporter's marks denoting either the exporter or an inventory mark denoting source. Does anyone know if these marks show up on other types of surplus firearms?
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member
Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member
Back to Top
sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: Nov 09 2015
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 1150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2023 at 2:49am
The majority of importers and their employees are understandably reluctant to say anything to anyone about what they've imported, from where, when, and the processing of the imports before they are sold. The few exceptions have been the smaller importers. I've been lucky to have a few contact me after seeing this website and our importer page. Including a couple employees and ex-employees of Century Arms.

Century Arms has been importing guns longer than any other importer. They are a fairly large company that has had multiple locations throughout the USA. In addition to other countries, such as Canada. They started importing U.S. carbines in the early 1960's.

The import mark requirement was part of the 1968 Gun Control Act that also gave birth to ATF. A CAI employee in VT who worked on carbines in their St. Albans warehouse during that time indicated something I've heard consistently from others who worked for importers over the years. Along with a couple import company owners. One question I've asked most if not all of the dozen or so has been what did they do when they received them here in the USA and did they place any markings on them.

After unpacking them the only inspection they did was superficial. The quantities they dealt with and the time they had to do things limited inspections to overall condition, parts damaged or missing, and appearance with the goals being move them and sell them. None did what I experienced at CMP, where the primary focus was safety and function. None test fired them. I know of only one who reparkerized some that were in really bad condition. One of the smaller importers with a small operation.

All indicated no markings placed anywhere on the carbines other than the import mark when it became a requirement in 1968. ATF hadn't given them any specific instructions on which of their locations to indicate if they had more than one, font size, the use of abbreviations, etc until the mid 1970's. So what we see from the 70's is a mix of locations and mix of abbreviations and all spelled out. But a name, city, and state were the basic requirement and appeared together somewhere on the receiver or barrel.

My guess is these were probably done by an armorer with a foreign military unit or police agency.

Jim
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2023 at 10:59am
A pattern is showing up where if there it a 3 In circle on the bevel or right side that it may have a random letter on the left side of the front ring.
We have seen some of these markings in Canada and Australia, both of which do not require import markings as it is a USA requirement.

Those reported have largely been imported by Century Arms Inc in St. Albans, VT.
They had several markings over time but I believe all reported have been  marked "CAI ST ALB VT"
What we do know is Century imported carbines from West Germany in the mid 1970s


Recently we have seen more of these 3 in circle making showing up on thous sold by Royal Tiger Imports (RTI) and they were imported from Ethiopia by Inter Ordnance Melbourne, FL

We left carbines in occupied Germany and Austria right after the war. Through the Military Assistance Programs (MAP) programs we sent Germany a known 34,192 carbines between 1951-1963. Austria received 12,620 in that same time period
There were carbines that shifted between agencies in Germany and Austria and they may have acquired carbines from other places in Europe or beyond. Jim would know better.

Carbines that were "lent or Leased" to countries were supposed to be returned to the US Army. These usually were given to the CMP. As they were returned to the army there would be no import markings. I do not think any of the 3 in circle marked carbines have been sold through the CMP.

It a country bought the carbines it became thee property of said country. They were allowed to dispose of as they wished. These are the carbines that get bought by importers.

This is not to say that some lent/leased carbines were not sold to importers.

From 1965 to 1970 the MAP sent 16,417 carbines to Ethiopia.
This is not to say that Ethiopia did not obtain carbines from other sources. Not all the RTI carbines had the 3 in circle marking,

Is there a connection between Germany , Austria and Ethiopia? Probably nothing that would tie these together.
It was probably due to arms dealers over the years.
What might help is if there are other military arms that have the same markings.



For more on the import marking and those we know were imported from

For more on the Lend Lease and Military Assistance Program, which is linked in the Import/export page above

If anyone is looking for a small project for the club, Go through this thread and linked posts and make listing of the carbines with the 3 and front ring marks, if known. As well as the import marking or country reported.




Back to Top
painter777 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2016
Location: Central MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 27 2023 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Another Circled 3, on GB now from RTI.

Has anyone noticed we have 2 different style 3's being used. Most common being reported having the curved bottom leg. Least common, like these 2 above having all the legs straight inward.

I just had a member report a carbine that I noticed the Circle on with what appears to be a block style 3. The up right/vertical part of the 3 is missing. I believe it's a example like above with a chipped or damaged 3 stamp. 
I'll Report back when he gets me the pics I asked for and get your thoughts.
It's a RTI import from Ethiopia.

Charlie-P777


Living Free because of those that serve.....
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 27 2023 at 10:57pm
I noticed Big smile

Don't forget to get a pic of the left side of the front ring
Back to Top
painter777 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2016
Location: Central MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2023 at 3:10pm
Maybe easier to post the link here. If needed you can pull the pictures and post them here for the record.


Charlie-P777
Living Free because of those that serve.....
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.