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Original C-tip slings? |
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: Apr 14 2017 at 7:31pm |
I was wondering what the consensus would be on these three C-tip slings, regarding if they are original or reproduction. I bought the khaki sling several years ago off eBay (believe I paid $30) and the other two green ones were given to me. The top sling, the lighter green one is missing the keeper. The other two slings' keeper almost look blued and have a "M" in a circle. They all say "KLIKIT (star) PULL", on the khaki sling and the darker green sling you can make out text in the back of the female snap but I can't see it in the third sling, but it could be there. Looks like it says "RAUFASTNER CO. PROVIDENCE RI"
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-Neil
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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Don't know slings well enough but will point out that W in oval on keeper is trademark of Waterbury Buckle. They were around during war but did not have any carbine contracts that we know of Edited by New2brass - Dec 20 2023 at 11:15am |
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Rcycles45
On Point Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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I'm going to vote that these are post war or reproduction . If you look at the weave pattern you will see it is not consistent through out the sling . The outer weave changes as if its a border weave which is not consistent with USGI slings .
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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I posted the khaki sling a long time ago on I think the CMP board, and two people responded, but the first thing they both said is that they were not experts but thought they were real.
Their reasoning included: 1. The boarder being a different weave than the center, that would cost too much money for a repro place to produce 2. That piece of metal that folds over to hold the female snap in place on reproductions is usually flimsy metal that is easy to bend 3. That "RAUFASTNER" mark is scene on lots of web gear of WWII vintage (which I compared it to Garand belts and other web gear I have and they do have the same markings) 4. That the fastener is beveled down into the sling rather than just flush into it to prevent it from catching on stuff, another detail that they wouldn't likely do on a repro. That being said, I've always felt that these slings were too nice, so that was my first red flag. So things I've noticed: 1. The C-tip is a 'skinnier' C, if that makes since than compared to other C-tip slings that I know are original pieces. 2. The metal looks blued, rather than parked. 3. If you look at the pictures the female snaps don't match up perfectly with each other, I would think period pieces would be pretty spot on (how ever, their lengths are consistent). The male half of the snaps do line up wifh each other 4. Again, comparing it to known vintage WWII pieces, these slings say "KLIKIT * PULL" vs. the WWII pieces all are unmarked and just have a dot or dimple on them. Regarding the two green slings that were given to me, they weren't given to me because someone 'didn't want them'... exactly. Someone I work with who knows someone who knows someone... etc. her husband passed away. He had a large collection of WWII stuff so I was put in contact with her and she gave it all to me. The lot included helmets, bayonets, knives, web gear etc., most of it was original but about half of the web gear was reproduction. But again, comparing the stuff that I know is reproduction to these slings there's a vast quality difference (repro stuff includes Garand belts, suspenders, musette bags, etc.) in the areas of the snaps used, the material of the cloth and so on. |
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-Neil
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Because I love to beat things to death, here are some pictures of original World War II items and reproductions for comparison.
Originals, this are marked identical to the slings above with "KLIKIT * PULL" and the "RAUFASTNER CO." on the back. The one is a five cell thompson magazine pouch and the other is a World War I cavalry cartridge belt that they added an extra pocket to for service during World War II (the belt and all but one pocket is khaki/tan and dated 1918, the other pocket is dark OD). I also have a Thompson magazine pouch for the 30-round magazines made by Boyt (I believe it's marked 43) and the shoulder strap has the same webbing pattern, if you want a picture of that I can take that too. These are reproductions, they are much cheaper metal, the tabs on the back are easy to bend and they are flush to the webbing rather than beveled down. They also seem painted rather than blackened. |
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-Neil
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David Albert
Hard Corps Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1005 |
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I'd like to see the magazine pouch. What is the light khaki colored item in the last photos? David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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In the last two photos the lighter one is a reproduction shotgun shell pouch and the green one is a reproduction Thompson pouch.
The one that you asked for, I believe it's for holding six XXX magazines. Marked "BOYT -42-" |
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-Neil
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David Albert
Hard Corps Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1005 |
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RedSpecial,
Thanks for sharing the photo. I have a couple of the magazine pouches myself. Here is a link to the various known makers of this item on my Thompson website. http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10090 I figured the light khaki colored item was a repro. Thanks! David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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David,
I'm very familiar with that website, I'm on there and go by 'kilroy'. I've thought about asking you to change my username for consistency but I had an issue when I was trying to sell a car once and the guy googled my user name and knew every detail about my life. Then when he was buying the car started asking me about stuff in my safe. After that I started varying my username from site to site |
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-Neil
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David Albert
Hard Corps Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1005 |
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RedSpecial,
Yes, I've interacted with you many times on Machinegunboards. Thanks for letting me know who you are. I understand about different names on different forums. Thanks, David |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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RedSpecial
On Point Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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I'm currently reading all the CCNL's and just finished this one. Looks like #222 mentions slings like this. I don't know if my reading comprehension is poor or if it's unclear whether the slings are fake, or if it's just the tags that were associated with them were fake.
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-Neil
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Davidj
Recruit Joined: Sep 03 2019 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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David
Just read your 2017 post re carbine slings. I am aware of the long held opinion that only c-tabs were used on WW2slings. I have a F-S CO 1943 marked sling with brass D tabs. I have seen 3 of them (one now on eBay) and all were offered by experienced collectors All three had D tabs and Rau marked brass fasteners. The slings are all one inch wide, are not new, have a solid consistent weave, and Jackie in color. I would think they might be post-war except for the 1943 date. I have been unsuccessful in determining if Rau provided marked fasteners in WW2. I can send photos Davidj |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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D tip slings did not exist in 1943. The Khaki color was a early item. Other things also point to reproduction So where did these Fake-Sling Co. come from? They came on the scene all at once. One dealer stated they came from the garage of an old Marine. When presses the dealer said "the Marines bought these in WW2 when they could not get enough of the green ones from the Army" Sorry to say, your sling is 100% reproduction. Still a part of carbine history, a nice item for the niche collector who is into the repros/commercial, if priced accordingly. P.S. @Redspecial this thread loses information when pictures expire. We ask all that post to use the forum software to post your pictures.
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