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Ferro Ferric Oxide |
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Posted: Oct 31 2020 at 1:31pm |
I have had several occasions to "conserve" rusty antique firearm parts by boiling them in water to convert ferrous oxide to ferro ferric oxide. Afterward I removed the residue with 0000 steel wool leaving a grey/black rust free finish. However I've never done this with Parkerized parts such as the operating slide on one of my carbines. Before I attempt this I was wondering if anyone out there in the carbine universe has tried this? If so, did the final finish match the original Parkerizing?
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JackP
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Here's a picture of the slide I want to conserve. Notice the brown "patina" on the arm. That's rust! The handle and top of the cam are totally brown. If I decide to "conserve" this part I will show before and after pics.
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JackP
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Donnie
On Point Joined: May 31 2018 Location: Newburgh, IN Status: Offline Points: 336 |
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I am not familiar with your approach to rust treatment.I look forward to the before and after photos of your work, as well as comments from others.
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Beezer
On Point Joined: May 21 2020 Location: Cleveland OH Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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My suggestion would be to check out the buy/sell/trade sections of this forum as well as the CMP forums. I’ve seen people selling demilitarized or broken receivers and slides. Buy one for cheap and try it on that before you possibly ruin your parkerized slide. Just my opinion. But on the other hand, if it does work, I may be interested in trying it to help conserve some parts as well. Keep us posted.
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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An interesting issue. Since the finish will have been compromised, what ever you treat with will likely discolor won't it since the Parking won't be the same? One of the IPs I've found must have had some rust on one side of the front sight and was treated. The area is darker toward black.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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ncin1911
On Point Joined: Dec 13 2018 Location: Hoosier State Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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fwiw Mark Novak has several vids on this conservation technique. In this one he explains, what it is and what it is not.
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Can't help with the gunsmithing questions and normally don't pay attention, but will now.
All thanks to @ncin1911 and the links to Mark's videos. Have been binge watching all of them.
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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It turns out that converting the rust on a Parkerized surface does not produce the same dramatic results as it does on rust blued surfaces. Normally there is a red powdery residue after removing the part from the boiling water. That was not the case here. There was almost no residue. It's almost as if the Parkerizing "protected" the un-converted rust. Either that or the red/brown color was not rust after all. The top picture is "before" and the bottom is "after" showing little difference after an hour of boiling and then carding with a bronze brush.
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JackP
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Looks better but I'm pretty sure it's rust. It looks better but still looks like rust. Rust sort of "blooms" as it spreads and the process you performed probably took off the bloom.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Another possibility is that at the altitude here in Cloudcroft, NM water boils at only 195 degrees Fahrenheit. That may not be hot enough to trigger the conversion reaction from FeO to Fe3O4. Like I said though, it works okay with rust blued parts.
Is there a chemist in the audience? |
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JackP
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03manV
On Point Joined: Mar 01 2020 Location: near Charlotte Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Chemist? Yes.
Lower temp = longer time. Now that you asked, no such thing as "ferro ferric oxide". Just Ferrous oxide = red "rust" and Ferric oxide = black "rust". ;) I don't know where someone got the "extra" ferro!
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Don
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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My wife suggested using a pressure cooker. Works with the beans, she says.
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JackP
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blackfish
On Point Joined: Mar 30 2016 Location: 999-0 Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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Magnetite (Fe3O4), the black rust you get when you boil red ferric oxide (rust Fe2O3) in water (for rust bluing), contains iron in both +2 (ferrous) and +3 (ferric) oxidation states. It is one type of "ferro ferric oxide".
Youtube is a TERRIBLE science reference. Much better is wikipedia. Only trouble is, you gotta READ it. Try using a strong solvent like brake cleaner on that "patina" and see if it doesn't come off! Looks to me like just dried oil/grease. |
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PLN-TAP-7
On Point Joined: Mar 28 2020 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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I tend to think that using steel wool in conjunction with some oil combined with de-rust product should do the trick without damage for the parkerization.
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ncin1911
On Point Joined: Dec 13 2018 Location: Hoosier State Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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Both sources mentioned, as with any reference material ,should be utilized with some level of scrutiny. |
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Smokpole
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1057 |
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Instead of steel wool, try bronze wool. less aggressive, but does the job just as well on dried grease and oil.
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halbert
Recruit Joined: Jan 31 2018 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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I'm a bit late to the dance here, but upon seeing the photos., my thought was much the same as that of blackfish; oil having oxidized over time to varnish. Difficult to believe an oil degenerated to varnish would have stood up to the boiling you describe, though. Just my two cents worth. -H
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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things... You cannot do more; you should never wish to do less.
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