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FAT ROCK-OLA carbine

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sling00 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: FAT ROCK-OLA carbine
    Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 1:21pm
I purposefully picked up a FAT carbine considering this is another chapter in their history.  Not as expansive and glamorous as the Bavarians/Austrians but a chapter none the less.   I Googled for info with little luck, finding mainly what FAT stood for, FAT isn’t an import mark, and discussions on how ugly the Italian replacement stocks are with most owners replacing them with USGI wood.   I read in CCNL 340, March 2007, a discussion on carbines returned from Italy being prepared for sale by the CMP.  It said the carbines had their bolts removed and many heavy in preservative.  This is a FAT 6.08 Rock-Ola service grade from the CMP in early 2008 which I assume is part of that bunch.   I was told it is as delivered from the CMP and I figured this is most likely as close to “original” FAT configuration as I’ll ever get.  I believe the “originality” is supported by all the metal parts, especially in the “hard to reach areas” still exhibit dried, brownish preservative.   In addition to the FAT w/date stamp on the ugly Italian M2 stock it has the corresponding FAT w/date stamp on the barrel (Undated Rock-Ola MW-1 w/Rock-Ola gas cylinder) in front of the receiver. The carbine is comprised of a Rock-Ola type IV slide, round Rock-Ola bolt, and a Rock-Ola Type I trigger housing with no milled angle between the front lugs.  It has a straight type III HI hammer, 26.5 coil hammer spring, an R.I. trigger with unmarked type III sear, a horseshoe w/M flip safety, and type III MAD mag release.  It has an NN front sight with Type III AI bayo barrel band from expected re-arsenal upgrades.  The rear site is a Type II milled, double stamped with HI and H in a shield as described in CCNL 359.  With all that said, I’ve got a few topics for discussion:  

I suspect there may be something in Vol 2 or 3 of Ruth’s books which I don’t have, so is there any info on the scope of work done on these carbines at Fabbrica d'Armi a Terni?  Did they go through a US armorer/re-arsenal before supplied to Italy? 

As stated, the bolt is a correct round Rock-Ola.  It has an IN firing pin and -U- extractor both of which appear to be relatively new dark blue/black.   Was the CMP taking efforts to match mfgs on bolt replacement or could this be the original bolt with replaced firing pin and extractor from a re-arsenal?

Any thoughts on the type I trigger housing being in this 6.08 carbine? 

Ruth stated the H in a shield type II rear sights were issued on later Rock-Ola’s.  I’ve included two pics for your evaluation if this may be original rear sight?  Also included one pic of the double stamp for your viewing enjoyment.




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W5USMC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 3:00pm
I believe that the Italian carbines went through a U.S. rebuild prior to them being sent to Italy. Our website says that the U.S. sent 146863 carbines via MAP between 1951-1965. All WB III says is "U.S. MAP delivered 156863 carbines to Italy prior to 1965.
As far as stocks go, I managed to buy 10 Carbines from the CMP when they were selling the Italian returns from 07-09. only 2 of them had ugly stocks, the rest were USGI, only 3 had the FAT stock stamp 2 of which were SA pot bellies (one a beautiful tiger stripe), the other a HI pot belly. In the mix of the rest of the stocks I have a J with a MR rebuild marking and a M-U with an AA rebuild marking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 3:38pm
I bought a group of 10 CMP Carbines from the original purchaser. Most came with FAT stocks. He had a relative or acquaintance who made some Walnut low wood M1 profile stocks for him and he replaced all the stocks with these. I got the original stocks too, but only a couple could be traced to the Carbines they were on originally.

None of the Carbines were substantially correct. I think one had it's original stock. The serial was stamped into it.  Of course this doesn't address your questions, but perhaps gives insight into FATs received?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by sling00 sling00 wrote:

and a Rock-Ola Type I trigger housing with no milled angle between the front lugs.


Wouldn't no angle between the front lugs make it a type II??
Just curious does the TH have the oil hole drilled on the left side at the mag catch?I got a Type I Inland TH with one of mine, unfortunately it has the hole. Also only a couple of mine have the "FAT" stamp on the on the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 7:18pm
I've seen 2 different barrel stamps on the Italian returns.
The usual stamp with date in it and also some with just a Star.

One member thought this about just the Star stamp:

" It may just be that it means it was worked on at one of the other arsenals and not at FAT or that it was just checked out and checked OK so nothing was done to it."

Sounds very possible to me.
BTW: I have a Type II rear sight with the same over stamp.
BQ explained to me that it was a Sub Contractor to Prime contractor.... Inland in this case.





Enjoy your FAT ROCK !
I grew up in a town called Flat Rock.

Good Weekend All,
Charlie-Painter777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

  

Wouldn't no angle between the front lugs make it a type II??

Agreed Wayne,
 
No front bevel, Rear magwall now wider than Type I, Rear Trigger housing Receiver Lug has same Beveled rear corners as a Type I.
This is what I understand to be a Type II Housing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 11:47pm
Rockola had narrow wall type 2 THs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 11:51pm
Hi Dan,
When I typed 'Wide' it didn't feel right at the time........ Guess I got busted playing the odds.
Thx and Good Weekend to you.

CH-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2019 at 6:31am
Good discussions...As for the TH, I made the Type I call based on narrow mag wall and Riesch (perhaps an error?) statement "Rock-Ola discontinued the angle cut at the front of the housing just prior to manufacturing the Type II Trigger Housings."  Here's a couple pics. Thanks


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2019 at 7:13am
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

I've seen 2 different barrel stamps on the Italian returns.
The usual stamp with date in it and also some with just a Star.
I noticed your stamp is perpendicular to the barrel. This one has a star over FAT over underscored date in-line with the barrel same as the stock stamp.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2019 at 1:08pm
I have one FAT CMP return carbine. It's an early (1.5M) QHMC with, I believe, all original parts except for the barrel band, rear sight, recoil plate and hammer. Only the barrel is FAT stamped. The original Type 1 RMC stock is untouched. The metal does look to be refinished but I somewhere remember reading that this may have been done while in Italy. The bolt is parkerized and matches the receiver and the Rock-Ola barrel which are a darker grey color. One thing that makes me think that it may have seen some USGI arsenal activity is the oil hole near the mag catch on the trigger housing. I don't know whether or not the Italian arsenal may have been doing this. The fact that, with the few exceptions, all the parts are correct for the SN suggests that the Italian arsenal may have been making an effort to keep the original parts together during any refurbishment that may have done.
JackP
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