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Fake Rockola Flip Sight

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carbinekid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fake Rockola Flip Sight
    Posted: Aug 02 2022 at 6:42pm
Hopefully no one here is bidding on this sight… Very fake. Big give away are the machining marks on the sides. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 02 2022 at 9:32pm
Looks to have been "aged" too.
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Mike in NC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike in NC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 12:03pm
Milling marks on the bottom are a dead give away also. Usually when sellers want to peddle these style of fakes, the don't show the bottom of the sight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

Hopefully no one here is bidding on this sight… Very fake. Big give away are the machining marks on the sides. 


help me out. "The machining marks on the sides". What about these, to you, gives it away? 

Yes, it is easy to spot for some, but for those of us (myself included) spotting fake sights and fake barrel bands are still difficult. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike in NC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 4:09pm
Seller has now removed any description of the flip sight. It used to read that id didn't look like any reproduction flip sight that the seller had seen before. Now, he / she can't be accused of lying if he / she doesn't have anything in the description. That deletion of the description happened sometime this afternoon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

Hopefully no one here is bidding on this sight… Very fake. Big give away are the machining marks on the sides. 




help me out. "The machining marks on the sides". What about these, to you, gives it away? 

Yes, it is easy to spot for some, but for those of us (myself included) spotting fake sights and fake barrel bands are still difficult. 


You're already doing what is necessary to learn how to tell the real from fake.All you have to do is just read past threads on them and make sure to look at and save the pictures,and be sure to read newer threads like the one we're on now and you will start to see the differences. Since you know this one is fake rebel, save the picture under fake sights. do this every single time you see a sight that has been declared by people in the know fake or real and keep a picture montage of everything. I'm not real good with these either haha. Beside the picture take notes of any comments that anyone says of what's wrong with this or that and pretty soon you will put the huge puzzle together more clearly. That's what I would do if I were to want to know how to tell real from fake. Luckily my Winchester has an adjustable site so I don't have to worry about these expensive little guys haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rezin777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Mike in NC Mike in NC wrote:

Seller has now removed any description of the flip sight.

I still see the original description. In fact it looks as if nothing about the auction has changed. Perhaps he did remove it at some point, but it's currently there.

I was the high bidder on this auction for the past several days. I had bid an amount that would surely guarantee that I win the auction. I really wanted an authentic Rockola flip sight.

Then I saw this thread last evening and my heart sank (especially considering how much I had already bid). Overnight I thought about what I should do. 

This morning I contacted the seller and explained that I had found information leading me to believe that this sight was a reproduction. I asked if he would be kind enough to cancel my bids as I was under the impression that I was bidding on an authentic sight.

The seller quickly replied to my message and also cancelled my bids, at significant monetary loss to himself. He asked how I had come to the conclusion that this sight was a reproduction and I pointed him to this thread. From my correspondence with the seller, I believe he was under the impression that it was an authentic sight.

I have to give thanks to the OP for starting this thread and saving me from making an expensive mistake. I also have to give thanks to the eBay seller for cancelling my bid when he was certainly not required to do so. The description does not claim that it is an authentic sight, even if it gently suggests as much.

This has been a learning experience in carbine collecting for me, and almost a very expensive lesson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (5) Thanks(5)   Quote dnewsom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 6:42pm
This is my auction. I have been collecting carbine parts for the better part of 20 years and, I will admit, this one had me fooled. I'm still not 100% but if there is a consensus it's fake then I will just pull the auction or give the current bidders a chance to retract. 

Originally posted by Mike in NC Mike in NC wrote:

Seller has now removed any description of the flip sight. It used to read that id didn't look like any reproduction flip sight that the seller had seen before. Now, he / she can't be accused of lying if he / she doesn't have anything in the description. That deletion of the description happened sometime this afternoon.

Nothing has been deleted or modified on my auction. If it had been there would be a note saying so. I won't be accused of being a crook or trying to pull a fast one. That's happened too many times to me. That is why I'm here commenting on this post. I have a reputation among many in the collecting community and I'm not going to let an eBay auction change that.

I'm getting out of collecting carbines and parts for this very reason. I finally have enough to satisfy me that I am certain of their authenticity. But the prevalence of fakes has really turned me off. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 7:01pm
Glad this post helped someone. 

For those wondering about this particular sight’s authenticity, head over to the sale section on this forum. There is an FO B marked flip sight listed. It’s also a fake. Though it’s marked for a different manufacturer then the one on the eBay auction, the machining marks are identical. They both come from the same modern source and are as fake as a three-dollar bill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bubba-7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 9:46pm
  Twenty years ago I said,  "There will come a time when real parts will be called fake and fake parts will be called real."  I think we are about there.
The two flip rear sights discussed here, I believe both are real.
But what do I know?  Compared to some, I'm just a newbie to carbine collecting.
Where is Ten-o-cee when you really need him?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 10:14pm
Rog, that was one of the first things you told me when I came to you asking for your help (Fake being called real and real being called fake). It is really unsettling for a relative newbie to the carbine world. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 10:38pm
People have been saying real is fake and fake is real for as long as I've been watching.

The ebay sight is fake. But you guys are giving away a lot of info that we paid quite a bit to gain for ourselves. 

The ebay fake sight that the seller hasn't removed, and probably won't, is selling for near the market price for a used reproduction like it is. 
 
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dnewsom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 11:38pm
Again, I’m right here. I’m the seller. Anyway, as I said, I was fooled. I amended the auction and gave anyone who wanted out of their bids the opportunity. It’s staying posted, as a reproduction. 

I don’t know everything. I’ve saved hundreds of pictures of parts based on the research I’ve done. I’ve bought all the books. I’ve asked a lot of questions. Even then I make mistakes. And I own up to it. 

Regardless of the auction, it’s very off-putting to a lot of the younger and less knowledgeable folks (who I count myself a part of) when they ask if a part is real or fake. I know a lot of the experts put a lot of time and money into their knowledge base. And I get the reluctance to share info to prevent the fakers from getting better. But what happens when y’all aren’t around to ask anymore? All that’s left is reading a bunch of posts like this on old forums about someone’s opinion. And that’s why I’ve lost interest in this hobby. In 20-30 years no one is going to care. I hope this post helps someone one day but after the links go dead I doubt it will. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2022 at 11:53pm
The info helps. And it'll probably help beyond now. I didn't recheck your description so that's on me for not checking. 
BUT, since at the current price it's near what you can sell a reproduction for it's not a harm anyway. Someone told me those sights are about 145-165 new. 

Almost all reproduction sights have the same characteristics as that one.  The other most common reproductions are the fake IN B sights that are cast with no milling. 

Plenty of people know the tells fairly well and many of us will be around a good while. You can just ask us if it's WWII or not. 
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 35 Whelen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 12:23am
I'm curious, what characteristics make this sight an apparent reproduction? If this one is indeed fake, would someone be so kind as to post a photo of a legitimate Rockola flip sight so we'll have a comparison? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 12:34am
*sigh* smh.
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https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Timothy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 1:51am
Thanks Tennessee. I looked all over earlier tonight and found lots of stuff on ‘fake’ flip sights but little on the characteristics of ‘real’ . Appreciate your comments on cast vs machined, etc.

Ps. On a related note - In the future if anyone would be willing to discuss the backstory on the various Sunday Funnies: myself and undoubtably other newbies would appreciate it if we could learn a bit more instead of pondering. Happy to wait a bit to hear the punch line if needed. Just a suggestion.
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 7:37am
Regarding authentic RO flip sights, if you visit the carbines of the collectors subforum page there are two original rifles posted near the top. I've also posted pictures of two original loose ones before, and those are just the ones that I remember this morning. There are good examples right on the forum. And lots that apply to any authentic flip sight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 9:27am
If you have seen and now know what fake ones look like, then you have much (most?) of what you need. The percentage of real Rock sights available is way, way low. Anyway, everything has been discussed on IDing on the forums for people to search and find. You just have to invest the time to educate yourself. There won't be any stickies about how to ID real and fake.

Be assured that people getting involved and watching forums are looking for better ways to fake Carbines to sucker other new people. 

My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2022 at 11:27am
Originally posted by tenOCEE tenOCEE wrote:

The info helps. And it'll probably help beyond now. I didn't recheck your description so that's on me for not checking. 
BUT, since at the current price it's near what you can sell a reproduction for it's not a harm anyway. Someone told me those sights are about 145-165 new. 

Almost all reproduction sights have the same characteristics as that one.  The other most common reproductions are the fake IN B sights that are cast with no milling. 

Plenty of people know the tells fairly well and many of us will be around a good while. You can just ask us if it's WWII or not. 


If I were rebel, I would remember this comment in particular and write it down somewhere. This is one of the clues I've been telling you about to look for in past threads.tenocee was kind enough to repost what has already been said in the past and information is easy to find, especially in this forum since all the pictures remain intact from years ago. Just got to put in a little bit of work which you'll be glad you did because you'll learn a lot more than your original question while researching.hth
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