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Could this bolt marking be Winchester?

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colreed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Could this bolt marking be Winchester?
    Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 4:02pm
Only marking on this round bolt (right lug). Not familiar with it. Looks strange like painted on. Metal not cut. Bolt has gas port hole.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 4:15pm
Post war replacement per Riesch, pg. 184. Don't think it's Winchester.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 7:41pm
My notes say Cadillac Gauge from a 1960's contract has a M in two circles.

 I do not have pictures to collaborate. However strongly suspect this is one of them. If anyone has one of these they would part with it would fit in my collection nicely.Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 3:22pm
I just bought a new (old stock) bare bolt and told was viet era Winchester same as your picture. Iwill see the gun show exibitor this coming March 10 and will ask him.  
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colreed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 3:27pm
sounds good. Please let me know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 3:59pm
Sure will. JackP and New2brass making me nervous as did I get the fever and buy blindly but feel more of my lack of knowledge. I feel OK with the purchase anyway. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 4:50pm
Many would make the assumption that any W would be Winchester. Look how the hammer made by White Sewing Machine is commonly thought to be made by Winchester.
 
Now if that vet has a W or M bolt in the wrap I would be very interested in seeing what it says.
 
My information comes from the word of Bill Ricca who for those who do not know was a military surplus buyer and found many of the contracts for war and post war parts. He also had many many parts new in the wrap which was tremendous to the club figuring out many parts markings.
Case in point the post war bolt made by Cadillac Gauge were found with packaging.
 
I believe all war time bolts were originally blued, post war parkerized. 
One key is the gas bleed hole on the bottom of the bolt. This was part of manufacturing after carbine production had ended.
Example is the Underwood round bolts. War time they were blued and no hole. Circa 1951 Underwood was involved in the carbine rebuild program. Somewhere I have a advertisement for machinists to build bolts for this effort.
These bolts are often found new in some form of un marked wrap, parkerized with gas bleed hole.
 
I do not think Winchester had anything to do with any post war rebuild program or made any parts during Vietnam for carbines.
 
Parts were required to be marked during the war so they could back track to prime and subcontractor should the need arise. Paint would not have been acceptable.
 
If someone feels like searching there is a thread about trigger housings made in the 60s or 70s
The manufacturer slips my tongue at moment, but the only mark found on them is inside. It is a cast R which was done by Rimmer that cast the part.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 7:33pm
In responce to New2brass, Really appreciate your information. My new bolt, there was no packaging. Just laying in a tackle box with lots of various parts, mostly old and worn. The bolt does have the bleed hole.
The finish is dull black, maybe some will call it blue/black. Parkerized, maybe but fime if it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 1:51pm
Nice follow up Dan,
I ran across a GB auction some years back, same bolt, described as a WRA part.
I posted asking about it. Replies came back as  M.
Thread evolved in to a discussion about the D marked bolts with input from BQ and Mr. Ricca.
Link here:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

 
 
If someone feels like searching there is a thread about trigger housings made in the 60s or 70s
The manufacturer slips my tongue at moment, but the only mark found on them is inside. It is a cast R which was done by Rimmer that cast the part.  

Cast trigger housings with the R cast in to them, the R located  inside bottom,forward/below the hammer.
Cast by Rimer Casting of Ohio.
Found in National Ordnance commercial made carbines.
And possibly later use by Alpine (?)

FWIW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:


Cast trigger housings with the R cast in to them, the R located  inside bottom,forward/below the hammer.
Cast by Rimer Casting of Ohio.
Found in National Ordnance commercial made carbines.
And possibly later use by Alpine (?)

FWIW
Charlie-Painter777
 
Charlie it is true that companies owned by Bob Penny used Rimer Castings.
Intertech Industries in Brooklyn NY had a 1969 contract for the government to make trigger housings and used Rimer Castings to cast the housings.
 
Both users had the R inside the housing. What I would like to do is compare the finish machining to determine the differences if any.
 
Here is the post that I was referencing
 
Charlie, on your "M" bolt, can you confirm the one picture is in fact the type mentioned in Milsurp post?
 
I do have a new in wrap "D" bolt. Now on my list of "to do" is find someone who has a blued one and determine if it had gas bleed hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2018 at 2:15pm
Dan,
The M bolt pictured above is a match to the one in my Milsurp post, which was in a GB auction.
Also remember another a few years later on a Ebay auction. Mr. Ricca and I discussed both, he confirmed both to be M bolts. He mentioned having seen some from the wrap with no marking.... or the marking found on the bolt body, instead of the rgt lug.

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