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Carbine help |
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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Charlie, Maybe CCNL 357? I think the barrel date is correct, at least COM 2358105 another T code has a 9-43 barrel. I personally am more curious about the trigger housing and parts within, isn't his serial too late for a type 2 housing and a 22 coil spring?
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Maybe CCNL 357?
It might be Wayne, I just remember having the page printed/copied and highlighted. So much paperwork here! I have 4 W codes. They seem to be the only Sub receivers for UEF I come across. Yes a few things are causing concerns, but I need to delve deeper before tossing opinion. Part of the reason I wanted to compare this ones date range to the W's I have. I'll look for COM 2358105
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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T-code serial numbers 2357807, 2358105, 2362581, and 2363337 all have 9-43 barrels, so agree that a 7-43 would make sense.
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Chad
USN Retired |
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Bigheavy31
On Point Joined: Aug 24 2020 Location: Asheville NC Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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FWIW my T code with 238xxxx has a 11-43 barrel.
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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The earliest T-coded receiver (for UEF) that I have found is 2353529. It was for sale on Guns International some time ago. The barrel is hard to make out, but looks like 7-43...very hard to tell.
Like most of the contracted 2nd block contracted UEFs, this one has a T-4 trigger housing and a T-3 hammer. Here's the link: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles---m1-carbine/underwood-intertype-1943-carbine.cfm?gun_id=101100745 |
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Chad
USN Retired |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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IIRC the chart I'm talking showed a timeline while UEF was building the 4 mil and 2 mil blocks and the overlap. I'll find it but she's in the office room doing bills and I get the look while going thru the drawers.
I've retreated.......
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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1258combatengineer
On Point Joined: Nov 25 2020 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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i searched and found this info, not sure if its accurate.......
The T marked receivers made by Intertype.... Serial numbers 2,355,000-2,400,000 were made from late June of 43 to mid April of 44. The W marked receivers made by Universal Windings.... Serial range.. 2,401,000-2,491,000 made from early Nov 43 to early April of 44. The S marked receivers made by United Shoe MFG, Serial range 2,577,000-2,599,000 made from early July of 43 to the last of January of 44. The B marked receivers made by Singer MFG, Serial range 2,630,000-2,655,000 made from early August of 43 to late March/early April of 44. |
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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Yes, that appears fairly accurate.
Though, I have seen S as low as 2573XXX and as high as 2601XXX and B as high as 2682354. Charlie will find what he is looking for and confirm.
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Chad
USN Retired |
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welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
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nothing ever wrong with too early--just bottom of skid , box or pile--be fearful of late parts--then also early restorers never had as good as info so sometimes you run into orig looking early restorations which are usually worth more in parts value then whole--any early part in a late gun look at it like a CD! I know of very few instances that early parts worth less then late
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Matt_X
Hard Corps Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 766 |
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What about the stock isn't as nice as you recalled? In the photos it looks pretty free of deep scars, cracks or similar damage. I think whether it is worth what you paid can have many answers. The only one that will matter will be what you think. Lemme 'splain my reasoning, and see if it helps. One way to look at the purchase is primarily as a collectible value. If you're looking at it that way then its fairly important to be confident you can resell it, without putting more money into it, in a fairly short period of time, and without a lot of additional expenses (shipping, listing and FFL transfer fees). Alternatively that the parts can be sold for the same or more than you paid. Another way to look at it is as a long term investment. While in many ways similar, its immediate resale value (or the value of the parts) is not so important. The question is more about whether it will hold value. From your earlier post, your interest seems to be more here. Compared to the RTI, it seems to me to be closer to what you want. Finally there is the question of useability. From the start of the this thread, it seems like you wanted a carbine that you could shoot. Again, in comparison with the RTI this one seems to be a better value for what you want. I don't know what availability is like in your neck of the woods, so your a better judge of local vaules. It seems to me that 1700, especially without shipping and other expenses, got you what you wanted. In addition it came with some extras that carry value/would have cost additional if you had wanted to buy them. When I decided on my recent purchase I factored in the extras, and that the carbine had been checked for MW and headspace. Everyone is different, but for me those things also had a dollar value. For someone else they might not. |
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1258combatengineer
On Point Joined: Nov 25 2020 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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thanks
I was hoping to get 1 with alot more original collectible value I know it has alot more compared to rti But in general |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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The flip sight has been disassembled and restored, though someone might suggest it's been blade staked to secure the pin. The blade staking looks like what some Bavarian/Austrian Carbines had done when they were taken apart.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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I do not profess to have as much knowledge or experience as many here. That being said, IMO..you did fine. Like Matt said, there are many ways to measure value. From my vantage point...carbine values have been climbing and I hope the market has not hit its peak.
Seams like a mix-master with a generic receiver, M2 potbelly, bad import mark, and full of run of the mill parts (a total hope it’s a good shooter) is running $850. Carbine w/o an import mark that has a decent T-3 stock and was arsenal rebuilt before Korea (adjustable sight and T3 band) that is in pretty decent shape is running $1100-$1300. A carbine that is really nice looking and is in the original, as built, WWII configuration (correct original rear sight, front band, bolt, etc) that does not have a giant T3 band shadow and giant divots from Adjustable rear sight staking, etc....runs about $1400-$1900 depending on manufacturer and any “unique” configuration that may have. They go up from there depending on originality as to NEVER messed with...rear flip never even been off, never a T3 band, all parts appear original to gun, pristine I-hut HW stock, etc. Things like how early, how rare, and condition really start driving price up. Heck, I’m seeing I-cut HW stocks that are pretty nice going for $450-$600 depending on manufacturer, original stamps, finish, etc. Good barrels that are not even early are selling for $350-$600. A nice mid 1943 UEF barrel is like gold. It is a correct barrel for so many other manufacturers. Early parts are getting very hard to find and then, when you find them, they are expensive. As far as UEF....the subcontracted receivers are not “rare”. Most of the whole 2nd block was subcontracted. We are talking approximately 140,000 T, W, S, and B marked receivers. They are very cool and I want at least one of each and will pay a bit more for one of them than a 2.8mil serial in equal configuration/condition,......but not a lot more! If you paid for each part in that UEF-T and built that rifle out of nothing but parts, you will have done fine to buy that rifle for $1700. Be happy that you bought a nice rifle and enjoy it. Listen, learn, and look at tons of carbines before you buy your 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., etc.! That’s my 2 cents.
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Chad
USN Retired |
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I do. Some of the upper so-called brass here get their sensibilities wrinkled if I say exactly what's on my mind. How much was paid, now how can I say this, for this gently massaged Underwood T-code? I'm not saying this purchase was mistake, we all make those, but as I have stated before there's something to be said for starting your collecting journey slow and safe. |
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03manV
On Point Joined: Mar 01 2020 Location: near Charlotte Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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In one of the earlier posts the OP says $1750 for the carbine.
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Don
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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That's what I did. First one to start off with was a Plainfield. Safe. Figured I knew enough by then and bought an M2. But the Plainfield learning experience started off as a grande' fail. Paid $350 in the early-mid 90s which was dumb. But it worked out for parts having a spectacular condition type II band that sold for a pretty fair amount much, much, much later on.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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LMAO! Bought a Plainfield...got my feet wet, then a few weeks later....bought an M2. JK.
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Chad
USN Retired |
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1258combatengineer
On Point Joined: Nov 25 2020 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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i honestly was trying to get a somewhat decent model before Biden takes office. Not going to get political but that was my reasoning to get one kinda quick.
Yeah 1750 for rifle, oiler, cmp white bag, new in paper mag and box of 50 cartridges of original mil lake city ammo. He told me he is a member on here. I did find an original khaki ww2 sling at local gun show for $20 I was going to put it on the rifle Edited by 1258combatengineer - Jan 02 2021 at 10:39pm |
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SSNPingjockey
On Point Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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Those IU oilers, if pristine, are going for 40-50 bucks. A new in banana paper magazine (T1 or T2?...IU, LU, UU) are selling for 35-50 bucks. 50 round box of WWII LC ammo is $35-40. So, you have about $110-140 just in those 3 things.
Does anyone know of any WWII USGI firearm that sells for less than $1,000 in just about any shape? There aren’t many. You can still get a military S&W Victory revolver in generic form for $500 or so. A pile of junk, barrel shot out 1911 like we all shot in the military through to the late 1990s is now at least $1K (they were all WWII made 1911A1s that were rearsenalled over and over again for 50 years). An M1 Garand....they used to start at about $1K....now start at about $1.4K. So, carbines starting in the $850-$1100 range is really about par for the course. Even though they made millions and millions of WWII small arms....they are more popular than ever. I hope they stay popular!!! P.S. - I’m not trying to say that all of the WWII 1911s are junk....BUT...I know I shot an awful lot of them in the 80’s and 90’s and many of them were WAY beyond their service life. Lolol. Now, CMP is selling them. Sure they are a mixed bag and everyone hopes for a good one.
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Chad
USN Retired |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Well,
I can guarantee you did better than if you'd of bought any of the 4 below, Look closely at the ones below and their sold prices. You paid roughly half and have real parts. Enjoy your Carbine Charlie-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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