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Bolt Face Question, please help!

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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bolt Face Question, please help!
    Posted: Mar 07 2022 at 8:27pm
guys, I have searched extensively for an answer to this question, and can’t find it. Took apart my bolt to clean as I had having a stovepipe every 15 rounds or so. I need advise on if this is a safety issue. Notice the bolt face, has a tiny chip on the side close to where the extractor is. I have compared it to my other bolts already. Can some experts chime in for me. Bolt shows very little signs of usage. It’s a round Winchester bolt.
   


Edited by W5USMC - Mar 07 2022 at 10:22pm
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2022 at 8:45pm
here is the bolt assembled.

  

Edited by W5USMC - Mar 07 2022 at 10:23pm
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Smokpole View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2022 at 10:06pm
I can see why the cases are hanging up. I don't think it is a safety issue but rather a function issue. Examine the cases that did eject. I suspect they will show markings from the "damaged" area. I would think that is a manufacturing defect that escaped notice. If it were mine, I think I would retire the bolt. Repair would require welding which would effect the heat treatment of the bolt and likely render it unsafe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2022 at 10:01am
Zooming in on your picture, the face milling has uneven depth as well. Given that and the condition around the firing pin hole makes me think this could be a bolt that was deactivated with a weld then "recovered"? I know Winchester milling is often classified as rough but I have a hard time believing this is as from the factory. I'd find another bolt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2022 at 10:22am
I have seen lots of bolts with a ring around the FP hole.
I also saw several like yours that looked pitted.
I was thinking pierced primers or maybe corrosive ammo? Dunno.

Though the divot in the area of the extractor is suspect, did you rule out other possibilities such as mags spring issues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2022 at 2:23pm
New2Brass:
  • There is no pitting anywhere on the bolt, or any other part of the firearm. I used my borescope and the barrel is excellent. ME 0, headspaces perfectly. 
  • The mag spring orientations are all correct, and tried strictly USGI mags, both 15 and 30, and also shot one of my other carbines with no issues that day. 
  • I was using my reloads, but was also using reloads from my other carbine. 
  • Something else I have noticed, is that when pulling the operating slide back, it is not as "forceful" or "difficult" to pull it back, and it seems a little slower than my other 2 carbines. I have changed the recoil spring out with one I purchased from Amherst. Do you get what I am trying to say right here? I have also changed out all springs in the bolt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2022 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Smokpole Smokpole wrote:

I can see why the cases are hanging up. I don't think it is a safety issue but rather a function issue. Examine the cases that did eject. I suspect they will show markings from the "damaged" area. I would think that is a manufacturing defect that escaped notice. If it were mine, I think I would retire the bolt. Repair would require welding which would effect the heat treatment of the bolt and likely render it unsafe.

Smokpole, I glanced at the casings on my lunch break, and nothing really stood out to me. Would It be obvious, or where should I look? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2022 at 2:56pm
With very strong loads, you can get a mirror imprint of any “raised” deformity on the bolt face transferred to the cartridge base. That chipped section may not leave a trace as it is flat or below the rest of the bolt face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2022 at 3:33pm
Does it look to anyone else like the bottom corner of the Extractor may at one time been chipped and possibly rounded off by some means ?
Maybe even leaning inward more than usual, like having too long of a Plunger spring ?
Could cause intermittent positive case rim hold. 

I'm wondering if a previously lodged / stuck Extractor chipped that area of the Bolt.

The Extractors I have and have seen have a Straight Right Angle on that bottom right corner.
You can see pics to compare on Jim's Bolt page: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html

I Suck at trying to crop/increase pic sizes. But did this attempt to show the OP's Bolt.... You'll have to Zoom on it.
*** Unless Wayne or Dan can Edit and increase this 1st picture Confused ***



There are better views on the link above, that show more of the inner corner.
Here is the only pic I have that can show the Flat bottom and part of the sharp inner corner on a Extractor:



Maybe swap in another Extractor and see if that cures the issue.

Just tossing out what I see and wondering why ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2022 at 3:42pm
The first thing I noticed was the ejector plunger pocket appears to be deformed also. I thought that is what OP was talking about b4 I even noticed the chip in the face under the extractor. Ethan had sent me a couple of pictures of the striped bolt and the ejector plunger pocket mouth first caught my attention. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2022 at 3:53pm
I will take some better pictures of the bolt when I get home. I think the ejector hole looks funny due to the way I sized the photo on my phone. 

An Ch-P777, I did have difficulty getting the extractor into the bolt, way more difficult than my other 2 carbines. Almost had to force it with one unmarked post war "GI" extractor, but purchased a NOS winchester extractor and it went in easier, but still not as easy as any of my other carbine bolts. 

PS. STILL CANT GET THE FRONT SIGHT PIN OUT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kro1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2022 at 11:46pm
Switch the bolt with your working carbine and see if that solves your problem. If so then get a new bolt or try changing bolt parts one at a time till you identify the problem. You should check head space before you fire it with the substitute bolt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2022 at 10:55pm
update. I examined fired cases from this bolt, and there were little rings, about the same size as the gouge in bolt face, on the butt/base on the cases. Wish I knew how it happened. Oh well, already have another round Winchester bolt that HS properly 
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2022 at 10:57pm
kro, you nailed it. That’s what I did and u got it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kro1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2022 at 11:18pm
Glad it worked for you.
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