The Carbine Collectors Club

Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine


Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > General Discussion > Parts Markings
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


B code UEF Carbine

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: B code UEF Carbine
    Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:22pm
Fellows; I work in a gun store here in AL. We have a nice UEF with the B code. An older fellow who was an Army Air Forces WW 2 pilot sold it to us in 1994. He was a New Guinea Strafer and flew B-25's.

I was wondering how many receivers marked B were actually used by UEF.   Dated 1-43
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:33pm
Apparently, this one has all the correct parts, I have found none that were obviously wrong for a WW 2 weapon.



Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:36pm
Stock Stamping
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:49pm
More markings on the stock...Ogden Army Depot
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:51pm

Pedersen for Underwood on the sling slot.
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 12:58pm
Dale, Are you dating the carbine as 1-34 by serial or barrel date?

Underwood had 4 subcontractors making receivers. The B code was made by Singer Manufacturing which is known for the Singer sewing machines. The B code is the most common of the 4.

It is estimated that Underwood utilized 53000 of these to make carbines.

When Underwood lost its contract some 1200 of these wound up in Winchester produced carbines.
The Underwood was either buffed off or lined out.

I would love to see a data sheet on this one!

Edit to add:
Please put a line between pictures and wording. Makes it separated. ( I fixed the above)

Pedersen Brothers in Connecticut, not to be confused with Pedersen and Robert Irwin. Robert Irwin company made the RSG stocks.

Welcome to the forums.

Back to Top
LMTmonoMan View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Mar 18 2018
Location: AL
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 1:48pm
If you don't mind me asking, what store do you work at? I'm in central Alabama, just south of Bham.

Awesome looking carbine brother.


Is it safe to assume that since it has the rebuild markings and early features that were mandated to be replaced in the TM, it's been partially corrected in those areas?


Basically are there any confirmed cases of arsenal rebuilt marked carbines in WWII configurations?
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 5:11pm
All that was done by OGEK was the replacement of the early mag catch with the "springy model",everything else is as made.....

The barrel date is 12-43, my error...Ogden was one of the Arsenals that acted as post production update facilities...They refinished a lot of 03 A3 rifles and did the mag catch update on the M-1 carbine.

Dale
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 5:12pm
Birmingham Pistol Parlor in Tarrant..

Dale
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
Why Carbines? View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Dec 27 2015
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by vonmazur vonmazur wrote:

All that was done by OGEK was the replacement of the early mag catch with the "springy model",everything else is as made.....

The barrel date is 12-43, my error...Ogden was one of the Arsenals that acted as post production update facilities...They refinished a lot of 03 A3 rifles and did the mag catch update on the M-1 carbine.

Dale


Can you post a close-up picture of the top part of the barrel band? Just checking on something.


Thanks
Back to Top
LMTmonoMan View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Mar 18 2018
Location: AL
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by vonmazur vonmazur wrote:

Birmingham Pistol Parlor in Tarrant..

Dale



I'm pretty sure I've heard of you guys, and now I'll definitely have to make visit to the store when available.   I'll send you a PM when I'm thinking about making it there.


Back to Top
LMTmonoMan View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Mar 18 2018
Location: AL
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2018 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by vonmazur vonmazur wrote:

All that was done by OGEK was the replacement of the early mag catch with the "springy model",everything else is as made.....

The barrel date is 12-43, my error...Ogden was one of the Arsenals that acted as post production update facilities...They refinished a lot of 03 A3 rifles and did the mag catch update on the M-1 carbine.

Dale



Very interesting. I just wonder why they would have thought to change the mag catch, but not the sight or barrel band. One could argue that the sight and type III barrel band are more critical upgrades then the mag catch, especially if GIs were still being issued 20rd mags by in large.


The arsenal aspect to the carbines is the perhaps the most fascinating one to me. Also still seems rich for discoveries, and new information.
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2018 at 11:58am
According to published sources, they did not have enough adjustable sights at the time, and the sheet metal model failed that was used by IBM first, so IR CO. had to redesign the sight, while Inland and WRA came up with their own ideas..When this gun went to Ogden, the bayonet band was not in existence, that came sometime after June of 44, I had one of the prototype bands from Winchester and it was tagged and dated Jul 44.

The band is illustrated for the person who asked. Looks like two spotwelds to me.




Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2018 at 12:02pm
"Very interesting. I just wonder why they would have thought to change the mag catch, but not the sight or barrel band. One could argue that the sight and type III barrel band are more critical upgrades then the mag catch, especially if GIs were still being issued 20rd mags by in large."

15 rds and they were being eaten by the stiff mag catch, hence the need to change them out for issue.

The adjustable sight was nascent when this gun left UEF for Utah, so that was not a priority, they did not even have a design at the time.

The Bayonet was adopted in June of 44, so that did not exist at this time...I estimate Dec 43 to Jan 44 on this gun passing thru Ogden.  

Also Elmer Keith talked about this once, in one of his books.

Dale
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2018 at 12:18pm
Published sources? I do not believe IBM was the first to use adjustable sights and are rarely seen on them due to contract loss and last shipments in 4-44

There has never been an original Underwood reported with an adjustable sight.

The question is if there is a rebuild mark why were the Bayonet lug band, adjustable sight and flip safety not added.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/postwar.html

Underwood did not assemble carbines in serial order, we see 4 mil block with earlier barrels than the 2 million block. Then later 4 mil numbers we see late barrel dates.

The date is  why I asked barrel date. If a 1-43 I would find the low wood stock suspect if not for the rebuild mark as they would have cut it down during process. I would not have expected a T4 trigger housing either. But with a 12-43 barrel it seems consistent.

Is there a light strike ordnance bomb around or near the "B"?

Very nice looking carbine and I as well as others would love to see a data sheet or better yet pictures of some of the inside pieces.





Back to Top
vonmazur View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Oct 25 2018
Location: Pinson AL
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonmazur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2018 at 1:32pm
12-43 is the date, as posted above in correction. I think the original IR Co. adjustable was fitted to IBM Carbines, it failed in testing and the flip sights were re-installed. I gave Bruce Dow the first model IRCO that I had, it had a very thin nut that retained the axle, and one could see the reason for the failure. I bought the sight from Fishkill NY flea market in the late 70's...Bruce also got the process manual for the M-1 carbine and M-1 Rifle from Edwin Pugley's estste, I gave him most of the interesting stuff in the late 80's.  They had not invented the internet so it was hard to find out anything in those times...

Dale
Issued an M-2 in Nam (INLAND)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.