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"ARMS 291" marked receiver

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x39aesthetics View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 12:23am
There's an auction this Monday for an M1 Carbine with a receiver marked
ARMS
291
I've done some research and can't find much. Probably because arms is such a generic search team when talking about guns.

Anyways, I don't have the luxury of time to acquire any of the literature on the subject and I don't know how to get in contact with Larry. Can anyone point me in the right ? I'll be going to see the other guns in the auction over the weekend to see what's on the barrel because the pictures are very limited.
Also, hi! You seem to have a nice forum here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 3:58am
Under the rear sight above the word Arms, look for the word Global.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 5:24am
Hi there, and welcome.

If the Larry you are referring to is Larry Ruth, author of the War Baby series on the .30 cal. carbines, he doesn't do internet. I was his photographer for War Baby III (volunteered at no charge for the experience). I authored most of the chapter in volume III on the commercial carbines. Global Arms included. Larry and I still communicate with one another and share info. I took the info he had in volume II and built on it with my own research for the M1CarbinesInc website. Then shared it with him for volume III.

Whoever Global Arms was remains a mystery. We know who made their receivers, who made their barrels, and that the parts they used were GI surplus. Surplus GI parts were readily available at low cost in the 1960's. A number of companies had receivers and barrels made so they could assemble the parts into carbines.

The web page we have for Global Arms: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_global.html

The receiver you have was manufactured by AMPCO in Florida. AMPCO advertised and sold their receivers absent the barrel or any other parts. The web page on AMPCO is located here: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ampco.html

Many of the barrels used by Global Arms have the letters MOCO on the right side of the gas piston housing. Some have had the MOCO markings removed. MOCO was Millville Ordnance in New Jersey. The web page on them is located here: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_millville.html

It's possible Global Arms was someone affiliated with Millville Ordnance. The owner of MOCO advertised his barrels alone as well as his receivers and barreled receivers in Shotgun News in the early 1960's.

A number of companies across the USA have used the name Global Arms over the past 70+ years. None existed during the time your carbine was made (circa 1962-1963). Online corporate records for many states don't go back that far. Records not online are usually in each state's archives. Florida and NJ corporate records online do go back that far.

There have also been several companies named Globe Firearms or Global Firearms with two in NJ that do go back that far. Both were distributors for carbines made by National Ordnance 1961-1966 +/-. I interviewed the founder of National Ordnance who also ran operations during that time. He had visited all the other manufacturers and knew their owners. He knew the owners of Globe Firearms in NJ/NY and Global Firearms in NJ/NY well. Both were owned by one family. He called them up and asked if they knew who made these carbines. They had never heard of them. They confirmed they built no guns, only sold guns made by others with National Ordnance being the only .30 cal. carbines.

There is quite a bit of information on the web pages on the above links. Including Global Arms.

A word of caution. This carbine was assembled and sold in the early 1960's. Strongly recommend it be safety inspected and headspace checked before it is fired. Every part on every firearm has a lifespan. Centerfire semi-auto rifles of a military design have several features that require occasional safety checks. Particularly the cartridge headspace in the barrel chamber.

By the way, it should have "Global" above "ARMS". If it doesn't, it won't change who made it. Those receivers are pretty unique and specific to AMPCO alone. Check the bottom of the receiver on and near the front trigger housing lug for the letters AMC or AMPCO. Look for the MOCO marking (or it's removal) on the right side of the gas piston chamber.

Your stock appears to have been made using a laminate but I can't confirm with the picture posted. Would be interested in seeing more....

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote x39aesthetics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 2:02pm
Thank you very much for the quick responses and the thoroughness of it! I suppose with more diligent searching of m1carbinesinc.com I'd have found some information.

The stock does look laminated to me, but I'll definitely be making an effort to go grab some more pictures. Is there anything in particular you'd be interested in seeing?

Given that it looks like they didn't make more than a couple hundred of these, do they command much of a price premium? My collecting has focused on WW2 correct firearms, but I'd be willing to leave that bubble if this is of significant interest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 2:55pm
Outstanding Jim Thumbs Up

I would have turned myself in,
Instead of constantly looking over my shoulder with you Hot on my trail.

X39,
I wouldn't expect to pay a 'Premium'.
Would expect the price range to be pretty much what Commercial made carbines are selling for.
Look at over all condition, fit, finish, headspace, chamber wear and muzzle/bore.
Check bolt lugs and locking shoulders for any sign of damage.
Look the receiver over good for any bulges/distortion or stress cracks.
See that the gas cylinder is intact.

Good luck,
CH-P777
Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 5:47pm
Charlie's correct in his assessment of your carbine.

Very few people collect the commercial carbines and most of those that do have their own special areas of interests that are their alone and different from one person to the next. Larry Ruth being an example. His interest is everything carbine related if it is related to the GI carbines of WWII and all that came afterwards. To include all commercial carbines, all toy carbines, all toy figures with carbines, and to a level and depth I've not seen anyone else go too. One reason why I volunteered to do his pics. I would have paid for the education I received. Kinda did as I paid for 6+ trips from SoCal to Western NY State. But a rare opportunity I wasn't going to pass on. A truly rare experience.

The one and only reason USCarbineCal30.com exists is because of that investment and education. Long story but not an exaggeration.

The biggest reason people buy the commercial carbines is for shooting. True then and true now. With the difference now being they are more affordable than new or GI. Doesn't really matter which company made them as long as appearances are what a person wants in hopes of having an affordable reliable fun shooter that can also be used for self defense and/or hunting.

What most people don't do is get the used carbine safety inspected before they shoot it. They assess it by taking it out and shooting it. Used guns are used guns just as used cars, boats and planes are used items. The difference being making that mistake with a used plane can be very obvious and very unforgiving in a very timely manner. Planes, boats and cars most people know better than to do what they do with a used firearm. All need to be inspected before use. They may work fine the first time but ....

The commercial .30 cal carbine barrels that were made back in the early 1960's may have been safe then but the designs used sometimes deviated from the norms. The .30 cal. carbines are like a tinker toy when it comes to disassembly and part replacement. As simple as they are does not change the areas that are critical to safe performance. Chamber headspace and the gas cylinder/chamber housing the gas piston are the top two areas for safety concerns.

Hope this helps. There are a few people who might be interested in it to collect but part of the reason most of them are interested is the lower cost to obtain them.

Jim

P.S. Charlie, sometimes OCD can be channeled into something constructive. Takes many years to learn how to do it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 5:54pm
Sorry, forgot.

As far as anything I'd like to see that would help the research and history documentation photos of that stock would be helpful. Very few of the laminated stocks used by Global Arms have survived.


Would have been helpful if they had indicated what state or city they were in along with an address :]. There are one or two other commercial carbine makers during that time who assembled them using parts made by others who I have yet to identify who they were. Normally I can ID who made the receiver after having examined and documented so many commercial receivers. The barrels used also have unique features that help ID who made them. Sometimes a few other parts too. But who did the final assembly is a different ballpark.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 30 2019 at 6:26pm
To the Op X39,
If this is an auction you'll be present at.... and Don't end up winning this Carbine.
If you can try reaching out to the Winner and pass along contact information to Jim's sight.
Any and all information adds up in the end.
Don't get me wrong we're pulling for you to nab it.

Thank You,
CH-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 31 2019 at 9:09am
Originally posted by sleeplessnashadow sleeplessnashadow wrote:


Would have been helpful if they had indicated what state or city they were in along with an address :]. There are one or two other commercial carbine makers during that time who assembled them using parts made by others who I have yet to identify who they were. Normally I can ID who made the receiver after having examined and documented so many commercial receivers. The barrels used also have unique features that help ID who made them. Sometimes a few other parts too. But who did the final assembly is a different ballpark.

Jim


IIRC, Global Arms was somewhere in Southern California. I bought an accessory from them in the early 80's. I believe it was the same outfit that made Carbines, but it was a long time ago...

David Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote x39aesthetics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 01 2019 at 8:02pm
I swung by the auction house today and was able to take some pretty rough pictures, but they wouldn't let me disassemble it
The stock definitely isn't laminate, but it's Global Arms for certain.





Edited by New2brass - Sep 02 2019 at 9:22am
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