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A Rubbing Bolt

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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Rubbing Bolt
    Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 3:46pm
Aren’t new builds fun! Especially when we build new stuff from 76-year old parts made by dozens of different companies all over the country.

I am fitting out a Rock shooter, nothing more nothing less. I begin to check things out with a Winchester T2 flat bolt I have. It would not rotate and lock on an empty chamber. I detected a rub on the skirt on the left side...the bolt is touching the skirt. However, when I chamber my dummy round, bolt rotates and locks perfectly. The cartridge apparently centers the bolt allowing it to clear the skirt.

Huuummmm I say. I grab an Underwood round bolt and things lock right up. I grab a commercial round bolt and she locks right up. Only time I have the issue is with the Winnie flat bolt.

The carbine has obviously had a barrel swap. Could it be it was fitted for a round bolt, which would have been the proper choice at the time? Can it be round bolts have a better grip in the channel than the flat bolt? Could I just have a problem Winnie bolt? Might it be okay to polish the skirt and gain clearance for the flat bolt?

The flat bolt works just fine in my gen-1 Universal, which is not skirted.


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jackp1028 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 5:33pm
I would suspect a bent skirt. Can you post a picture of the skirt? Also, does the Winchester bolt work okay in other USGI carbines? If so, it's the skirt. I would not start polishing things until you know for certain it's not the bolt.
JackP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 5:50pm
Gonna be hard to get a good picture, but I will try. There seems to be a little ridge or high-line in the skirt at 8 o:clock and I can see a rub right there where the left edge of the bolt is touching. Not by much but just enough to prevent rotate and lock on it’s on. I can push it over with my finger using moderate force.

It likely will not hurt a thing and maybe it will wear-in if I just rack the slide enough. It’s just a little bugging-me sort of thing. It closes each and every time on a chambered round and it’s not possible to have it fire open-battery on an empty chamber.

I have ran three round bolts thru it without issue, one Underwood and two commercials. I will try the Winnie in my inland after I borrow it back from my brother-n-law.
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blackfish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 6:11pm
Sharpies are good for identifying metal/metal interference. Use lipstick or chalk for wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 6:40pm
Okay guys lets try this. Bear in mind this is nothing new. This is something that was done to the skirt when the barrel was installed or replaced. It has been shooting like this and the ME is close to a weak 3, so I know it worked...and does work with a round bolt and will work with the Winnie bolt over a chambered round.

Notice at the end of the line at the skirt it seems as if the installer really worked-over the skirt. There is a pretty good size gouge right at the bottom of the skirt, but there is a "hump" right at the end of the red line where it looks like he first inserted his die-grinder.....maybe. That hump is polished from my playing with the Winnie bolt.

I do plan to re-barrel the receiver at some point, but want to get it together and test-fire to verify everything. I see no reason not to think that I could polish that hump down a tad. After all...it looks like the installer really worked-it-over anyway.



This pix really shows the rub.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 7:04pm
The skirt appears to be protruding into the bolt seating area. Perhaps the long skirt was remove due to damage and the remaining short skirt still stuck out a little. Looking at several examples it appears there is supposed to be a bevel on the inside of the skirt to help "guide" the bolt into position. I don't see this bevel on your carbine. Like you proposed, a little die grinder might help. By the way, that "hump" you mentioned is the transition from the thick part of the skirt to the thin section that has been removed on your carbine.
JackP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 7:17pm
I fully expected the barrel to be shot (no pun intended) and bought the action for the receiver. Thank goodness barrels are relatively easy to replace, ROCK-OLA receivers not so much. The carbine has obviously worked fine the way it is. I think I will “polish” that spot out a tad and shoot the thing for a while. Won’t take much.

A question persists as to why the Winnie flat bolt chokes and any round bolt pays it no attention. 
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blackfish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 7:34pm
"bearing surface"

Bolt's roundness helps the receiver guide the bolt to battery
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 7:43pm
Seems Polishing down the high spot is the best fix.
Like you said it doesn't appear it needs much.
Should be easy enough to do.

The WRA Bolt, makes you wonder if the outer sides of each lug have just enough wear that allows a little side to side play..... Or... Not enough wear for the needed play.
Maybe the bolts bottom ramp helps shove it up a bit more... ????

Either way I believe your buff down game plan is the best play.
Then the WRA flat bolt won't bother you when it closes on a empty chamber.

Good input from these members Floyd...... I'd Thank them Thumbs Up

Charlie-P777

ETA: Rails look dry
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by blackfish blackfish wrote:

"bearing surface"

Bolt's roundness helps the receiver guide the bolt to battery

I had suggested that. This carbine likely never had a flat bolt in it after a rebuild. The issue only arose when I tried to poke a flat one in.

I am making an assumption the barrel has been replaced at some point. It has an Underwood on it now and the only digit I can make out for a date is a 4. 

And yes...thanks to all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2019 at 9:45pm
Keep us posted how it comes along.

Cheers,
CH-P777
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 18 2019 at 6:42am
Jack’s comments about the skirt prompted me to do some research. I understand it may not be a surprise to find a modified long skirt that had been shortened. The method used to shorten it may have varied among craftsmen. This one does look like they may have just broke it off. I now do see the transition from thick-to-thin at about 8 o:clock on the skirt, which is exactly the spot where the Winnie bolt rubs.

I probably won’t fool with it. The flat bolt works in another carbine that has no skirt, so it can live there. I’ll just use a round bolt for this application. I was sort of wondering if anyone else had experienced this same issue. Once we get something posted, the information exchanged may be helpful to someone else.
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