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“50” marked stocks

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sheepdoc View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 16 2020 at 11:52pm
I have a Quality Hardware (4,6xx,xxx) receiver with Rock-ola barrel and an unidentified stock with .U. refurbishment mark (Underwood).  It has a “50” stamped to the left of the recoil plate, and now I have seen a Rock-ola receiver gun with unknown stock, with the same “50”.  Any idea on what the “50” means?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2020 at 9:21am
Rack number of some type 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2020 at 9:33am
I've seen the small "50" in that location, but only on stocks of Israeli use- with the large
serial number stamped on the left upper butt stock.

I figured it was an "inspector/rebuilder/workman" type number; I have seen two digit numbers other than the "50" also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2020 at 4:27pm
Sometimes I wonder if it is an armory/depot identification number or a district identifier. I've seen these numbers too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989LX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2020 at 5:13pm
I have an I.R. stock with a 50 in two places that came from Israel. I almost wonder if the 50 could be some kind of depot marking or equipment identifying mark? That's a total guess though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheepdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2020 at 6:11pm
My M1 does have the serial number stamped in the stock and a white sticky label on the stock that might have Hebrew Written on it, so the idea of some sort of Israelis inspection mark Does make some sense. The other gun I have seen has no serial number on the stock, or any other indication of Israeli use. This is helpful info. Thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2020 at 10:41am

I do not believe it to be a rack marking of an inspection marking.

I think (capitol THINK) I have seen a 100 in that location.
I have seen the 50 on the left and on the right.

I have never been to Israel but it seems to have rural and urban areas.
The M1 carbine made an excellent urban weapon as a stray bullet most likely would not penetrate a wall and create collateral damage.

though the number is in proximity to the recoil plate it is also in proximity to the rear sight.
the M1 carbine adjustable rear sight had settings from 100-300 yards

I suspect the 50 would mean that the carbine was sighted in at 50 yards or meters which would be more suitable for an urban environment.

Thoughts?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheepdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2020 at 11:18am
That occurred to me as well.  After having shot it at 50 yards, it shoots 2-3 inch groups centered about 2 inches high, which would put it about right on at 100-150 yards. I don’t think 2 inches would make any difference in a combat situation, in my opinion. I appreciate the feedback though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2020 at 11:22am
I like that line of thought Dan.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2020 at 10:24am
Originally posted by sheepdoc sheepdoc wrote:

That occurred to me as well.  After having shot it at 50 yards, it shoots 2-3 inch groups centered about 2 inches high, which would put it about right on at 100-150 yards. I don’t think 2 inches would make any difference in a combat situation, in my opinion. I appreciate the feedback though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2020 at 1:47pm
I'm not sure what the number stands for but have read about quite a few Importer marked Israeli returns reported with the number 50. Some with a hebrew marking on the rear tang of the receiver, some with a character on the underside of the hand guard.

This post wanders off topic but in Replies #29 and #38 mention is made of having the 50 on the stock:

@ sheepdoc, you mentioned: " the serial number stamped in the stock and a white sticky label on the stock that might have Hebrew Written on it"

Here I copied/pasted a reply from Gunboards Forum. 
If my link doesn't work I believe you can click on the: #7 Dec 6, 2011 below-
Link: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/inland-m1-carbine-serial-numbered-stock.245343/


"My Israeli import has the serial number on the LEFT side of the stock. It also came with a peel-away sticker written in Hebrew pasted on the stock also."

FWIW,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2020 at 2:23pm
Both Imported marked and from Israel. Both have full serial number on the left.

This one is Just a 3 



CAI import IBM Carbine from Israel numbers to the left of the recoil plate are small and appear to be an upside down 30


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheepdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2020 at 2:57pm
Thanks for that info. I think I know someone who can interpret the label. I will let you guys know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2020 at 10:22pm
A "3" and an upside down "30", pretty much kills the "sighted in at 50 yards" idea.

I'll stick with an inspector or acceptance location ID .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2020 at 6:35pm
Owner replied to me about the stock with the number 3. It is not a Import and does not have the serial number stamped in to the stock.

Owner of the one pictured and described as upside down 30 now believes it appears closer to being a number 50 but can't be positive. It is a Israeli return with the serial number stamped in the stock and also CAI import stamped.

@ SHEEPDOG,
Does the tag on yours resemble this one, location wise ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2020 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

A "3" and an upside down "30", pretty much kills the "sighted in at 50 yards" idea.
I'll stick with an inspector or acceptance location ID .


Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

Owner replied to me about the stock with the number 3. It is not a Import and does not have the serial number stamped in to the stock.

Owner of the one pictured and described as upside down 30 now believes it appears closer to being a number 50 but can't be positive. It is a Israeli return with the serial number stamped in the stock and also CAI import stamped.

Well now we see the 3 is not from an Israeli numbered stock, just a stock with a number in the same location.

Cropping and flipping the "30" from the picture Charlie posted above It would be a funky font 3, but I can also see a 5 that has a dent making it look like a 3. Lets call this inconclusive.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/3657/ISRAELI50.JPG

 Is it an  0  with an upside down 3 or 5 or is the whole number upside down?
Looking on the forum I found these pics.

another upside down.


sideways facing shooter


Seems they did not hold a direction, or maybe the direction means something?

Going through my stocks I found 5 with the serial number in the location used by the Israelis.
This is a different location that is sometimes seen on the Italian returns.

Only one of them had the 50 (upright) marking near the recoil plate. all others had no markings except a partial rebuild marking (AA??)

I personally observed many Israeli returns with the 50 as well as others have reported the 50 as being common.

If it was an inspectors marking or acceptance stamp why wouldn't all of them have the marking? Is it possibly only one inspectors marking has been observed?

Consider this, Would an inspectors marking be in Hebrew?
The next question I asked myself is if they would use Hebrew numbers if it was for sight marks?

Looking at a limited amount of Israeli made guns (Uzi, DROR etc) I see the serial numbers and sight markings use the Arabic numbers. The manufacturers name and model is in Latin alphabet. long that some have Hebrew lettering as well. Maybe someone has the time to look into that further.

Maybe someone knows a person that served with the Israeli Defense Forces and reach out to them to find out about inspectors marking and sight markings. Would they have bothered to sight arms in at 50 meters or yards?

We can also ask out members to report any Israeli stock and if there are any markings near the recoil plate area. This an be personally owned or even spotted online auctions etc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 27 2020 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by 1989LX 1989LX wrote:

I have an I.R. stock with a 50 in two places that came from Israel. I almost wonder if the 50 could be some kind of depot marking or equipment identifying mark? That's a total guess though.

As your PM said-
number 50 to the left of recoil plate
number 50 to the right of recoil plate.

Can you post picture or describe the numbers orientation ?

Thx,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MilsurpsUSGI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 27 2020 at 7:48pm
I'm the owner of the stock with the inconclusive 30,50, or whatever it is. It's an S-HB and also has a STD-PRO rebuild mark. I've got another one from Israel that has some numbers, too. I'll take a closer look at both of them. - Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989LX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2020 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

Originally posted by 1989LX 1989LX wrote:

I have an I.R. stock with a 50 in two places that came from Israel. I almost wonder if the 50 could be some kind of depot marking or equipment identifying mark? That's a total guess though.

As your PM said-
number 50 to the left of recoil plate
number 50 to the right of recoil plate.

Can you post picture or describe the numbers orientation ?

Thx,
Charlie-P777


I will when I get home, which should be monday. I am out of state currently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2020 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

We can also ask out members to report any Israeli stock and if there are any markings near the recoil plate area. This an be personally owned or even spotted online auctions etc.

Checked the only Israeli stock I own, it is on a CAI import, NPM with OI stock, STD/PRD rebuild stamp. There are no numbers stamped near the recoil plate but there is what appears to be a circled 1 or 7 on the bottom of the hand grip. Frank D posted a pic of a similar marking on MILSURPS.



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