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Church Magazine Update

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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Church Magazine Update
    Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

I saved these photos a year or two ago and meant to post them sooner. The mag sold on gunbroker. Evidently I didn’t save pictures of the mag itself, but I’m 99% certain it was the standard parkerized finish and church marked. If it had been something different I would have saved pictures of that too.


That auction started at $250. Eventually it came down on relists, but went for more than expected.

There were no pictures of the magazine. Even though the packaging was opened the seller did not want to pull it out to check to see if it was marked.

As it happens one of our members saw this exact magazine in the sellers shop, same story, he would not allow it to be pulled out to check the marking.

One of our members bought that magazine or it may have been another another in the same packaging. I asked they share the marking and construction features of that magazine. The pictures never came.

So this firmly remains in unknown until one shows up sealed in wrap and can be verified.

Also to add, it is believed that it is from Iserlohn in West Germany via the first page.
Isn't Munich in the south?



Edited by New2brass - Jul 02 2022 at 7:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 5:47pm
I was curious if the camps had been “upgraded” post war and reused. I know that the mags couldn’t have been made using forced labor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

Was dachau-munchen not a concentration sub-camp??

Interesting question.  
There are two München sub-camps listed for Dachau. 
Schwester Pia's München-Schwabing  
and
Agfa-Commando at München-Giesing

According to the information on Wikopedia, the reformed post-war ERMA, ERMA-Werke, set up in Dachau around 1952. So the address does not seem to be related to the concentration camp or its atrocities.
(Nazi era ERMA had used forced labor at its facilities in Erfurt.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 4:43pm
Good pictures carbinekid, sure wish you also had a picture of the magazine's markings, although I do not doubt that it may have been a church marked mag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 2:54pm
Was dachau-munchen not a concentration sub-camp??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2022 at 1:43pm
I saved these photos a year or two ago and meant to post them sooner. The mag sold on gunbroker. Evidently I didn’t save pictures of the mag itself, but I’m 99% certain it was the standard parkerized finish and church marked. If it had been something different I would have saved pictures of that too.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2022 at 8:49pm
There’s a local shop that’s got several in really good condition for $60 each. Seemed steep for postwar European production, but I guess they are actually a deal. I’ll have to revisit them I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2022 at 6:13pm
You got a good deal if this is what you get into and collect, as recent past shows they have went for a lot more, example given a couple months back, a pair sold on GB for $300.00. Basically its worth whatever it is worth to the person interested. Some people know this stuff is drying up and will pay some good $ for it, some dont give 2 hoots. Congrats, M1/M2 Carbine history is very Cool.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2022 at 4:02pm
I paid $70 for mine, it fell through the cracks on Gunbroker, seller ID'd it as "unknown marking" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2022 at 3:59pm
What do you guys value these mags at these days? I always thought of them more as a curiosity, but it looks like they’ve got some real value?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2022 at 2:30pm





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2022 at 6:53pm
Very Cool guys, please post some good imagery when you get them in. I was able to acquire 2 Church Mags recently myself!    Cheers! JB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2022 at 10:50am
I got one too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dirty30Carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2022 at 10:45am
I recently won a Church magazine off Gunbroker for $95 plus shipping. I’m waiting it’s arrival 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2022 at 12:51am
Thanks, Love the History
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2022 at 12:21am
Here you go thirtyround.



Edited by W5USMC - May 03 2022 at 12:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 11:57pm
Ive seen pretty much every type of Carbne Mag, never seen a Jay Scott marked 30rd Magazine.... anyone care to post a few images of the markings?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 11:50pm
Plausible / Unlikely, Both have potential. During the 50's 60's, early 70's a metric sh@t ton of surplus across Europe and the world was being imported regularly by anyone with capital.... New and used parts, mags etc... as scrap. Lots of unknowns and just the ramblings of seasoned OLD Timers that are left to convey the stories we dream about today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 11:23pm
Lets back up a bit.

In CCNL 265 Nov 1998 Larry Horner interviewed Mr. Scherer

In 1963 the NRA was releasing thousands of carbines without magazines. You could buy a USGI 15 round magazine for 10 cents. The 30 round magazines were selling for $3. Scherer saw an opportunity here and had 30 round magazines made. He was selling them 65 cents each if you were buying 1000.

The Tony Scherer magazines had 8 known codes as well as an unmarked. The codes copying USGI magazines were early production and then he was producing unmarked magazines until some import magazines showed up unmarked. This is when he switched to the Made in USA marking
Somewhere in the mix Jay Scott contracted Scherer to make magazines with his name on them.

All of the Scherer magazines have the square cut on the back. If you look at the pictures in this article you will see the church magazines had a angled cut. The Church mags are noticeably heavier than the Scherer magazines

 So I would think The Jay Scott magazines in the box were marked Jay Scott

I think the church mags showed up in the early 90s.

so do I think its plausible that Jay Scott bought surplus mags and sold them in his boxes? I find this unlikely as he had his name put on the ones he was selling rather than just reselling the other magazines.




Edited by New2brass - May 03 2022 at 10:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 10:03pm
    It is plausible that Jay Scott acquired M1 Carbine 30rd magazines from many sources / manufactures, which could have been large amounts of Church mags as well when they were initially imported, and distributed in their boxes.       
    It would have been cheaper to acquire them than manufacture them. I remember buying GI 30rd mags from SARCO for 3 dollars each in 1979, Remember back in the day (60's - 80's), hardly anyone wanted these mags.             
    When the initial importation of LARGE amounts of M1 Carbines rolled in, in the very late 80's from South Korea from multiple importers ($120.00 wholesale in Shotgun News), 30rd Mags were stripped nationwide very soon thereafter.     
    Unfortunately, across the USGI spectrum of classic firearms its just getting wild yet predictable..., and anything equipment, gear, parts associated with them is very swiftly disappearing. Cheers JB          
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