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Serial Numbers to Look for and Report

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Club Requests and Member Submissions
Forum Description: Submissions, Spotters Reports, Documents, Sharp Eyes Dept.
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1292
Printed Date: Dec 08 2022 at 4:02am
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Topic: Serial Numbers to Look for and Report
Posted By: Lupus Dei
Subject: Serial Numbers to Look for and Report
Date Posted: Mar 04 2016 at 12:24am
March 2016-G

   http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/CCNLs/316g.pdf" rel="nofollow -

SERIAL NUMBERS TO LOOK FOR AND REPORT

While collectors have learned much over the years about the quantities and variations of carbines and related accessories that were produced, more can still be learned in some areas. At the end of 2015 the Carbine Club had on record over 75,000 carbine serial numbers that had been reported from various sources. This is not a large sample of the total carbine production, but is enough to give a general picture of the usage of serial numbers and the scarcity of some carbines. It is recognized that most carbine contracts were terminated before the contractors used all the serial numbers they had been assigned. Some contractors apparently skipped groups of numbers within a serial number block, for undocumented reasons. Below is a list showing the serial number ranges where no numbers have been reported, or the information is too scant or may be erroneous.

 

 

 

 

 

 
In addition to the serial number ranges shown above, there are other things that can be watched for and reported to help expand and improve the knowledge base. Unusual receiver markings, such as letters in the serial number area on the receiver, or names lined out, should be reported even though the carbine might be a "mixmaster". Rare models, such as those marked T3 or T4, and experimental or presentation carbines should be reported. Fakes are common, and repro parts, including barrels, barrel bands, flip sights, etc. are readily available. If possible, get photos of rare items.

J.B. Powers                                  

Carbine Club Newsletter 357 features a comprehensive in-depth statistical analysis of all serial number ranges, the result of more than 30 years of data collecting by members, and written by J.B. Powers. In my opinion, it is the most significant series of articles ever published by anyone on carbine production, in regards to serial numbers used and quantities produced.

Marty Black                                          

former Carbine Club Newsletter Editor
 

 

                           



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Louis Dey
Admin
www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums



Replies:
Posted By: Rcycles45
Date Posted: Mar 05 2016 at 4:40pm
I have Rock-Ola 16728xx that seems to be in the range listed . This rifle is the highest serial # range that I have ever seen for springtube variation ..


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Mar 06 2016 at 2:14pm
Rcycles,
Fantastic, love hearing about something not previously reported
Is that a type 2?
Have you submitted a data sheet?
 
 


Posted By: Rcycles45
Date Posted: Mar 06 2016 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:


Rcycles,
Fantastic, love hearing about something not previously reported
Is that a type 2?
Have you submitted a data sheet?
 
 

This is a type 1 variation B springtube . I will be submitting a data sheet on it .


Posted By: Marty Black
Date Posted: Mar 11 2016 at 4:15am
Thanks Rcycles45 ! I'd love to see a photo of the serial number as well as the right side of the receiver (the spring tube area). Your report is the first one received on these "missing" serial numbers! Thanks much!

If the barrel is dated, we'd like to have that information also.

Regards, Marty Black

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Marty Black


Posted By: Rcycles45
Date Posted: Mar 12 2016 at 8:46pm
Marty here are some pictures , Barrel is dated 3-43 . If you need any other pics just let me know . I'm still working on trying do resize pics to upload here .

http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/rcycles45/library/1672810%20Rock-Ola" rel="nofollow - http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/rcycles45/library/1672810%20Rock-Ola


Posted By: Marty Black
Date Posted: Mar 18 2016 at 1:27pm
Thanks Rcyles! Great pics, fantastic early Rock-Ola carbine! Certainly the nicest early RMC I've ever seen...and I lived in the Chicago area for over 30 years!

And thanks for helping us fine-tune the transition from T2 to T3 receivers. You've helped us fill in another little piece of the production puzzle. Yet, we've still got about 3500 "missing" numbers higher than your's, before the T3s are first reported. We'll have to keep looking and reporting.

I would strongly encourage you to do a Featured Carbine on this gun for the benefit of the forum members. That carbine is full of very rare parts, and we can learn a lot from it.

Say, does the stock have the little cut-out on the inside to accommodate the little tab on the type 1 spring tube? See the Featured Carbine QHMC 4645574 if you are not sure what I'm talking about. I suspect it does, since your photos showed the type 1 tab facing downward.

Great posting of pics, thanks! Fantastic carbine!

Regards, Marty Black



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Marty Black


Posted By: Rcycles45
Date Posted: Mar 23 2016 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Marty Black Marty Black wrote:

Thanks Rcyles! Great pics, fantastic early Rock-Ola carbine! Certainly the nicest early RMC I've ever seen...and I lived in the Chicago area for over 30 years!

And thanks for helping us fine-tune the transition from T2 to T3 receivers. You've helped us fill in another little piece of the production puzzle. Yet, we've still got about 3500 "missing" numbers higher than your's, before the T3s are first reported. We'll have to keep looking and reporting.

I would strongly encourage you to do a Featured Carbine on this gun for the benefit of the forum members. That carbine is full of very rare parts, and we can learn a lot from it.

Say, does the stock have the little cut-out on the inside to accommodate the little tab on the type 1 spring tube? See the Featured Carbine QHMC 4645574 if you are not sure what I'm talking about. I suspect it does, since your photos showed the type 1 tab facing downward.

Great posting of pics, thanks! Fantastic carbine!

Regards, Marty Black

Thanks Marty , Glad I could help out , like I said I haven't come across a Rock-Ola springtube receiver with a higher serial number then this one .This carbine has been restored some what and yes the stock has the spring tube notch cut out .



Posted By: SSNPingjockey
Date Posted: Jan 27 2021 at 9:29am
Underwood-B (Singer) 2683573 was on GB not long ago.  It was a mix-master with an Underwood barrel, but date of barrel was not listed or legible in photos.

UPDATE 2/7/21:  I had written down in my notes that the barrel on this B carbine was “unknown”, but at the time I wrote this post, thought I recalled that it was an Underwood based on a photo from the side of the barrel.  Dan actually had a copy of the GB posting that went through to the end of the auction which did have a photo of the top of the barrel.  The barrel was, in fact, a Winchester with stamped “W” and Winchester stamped barrel cartouche.




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Chad
USN Retired


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 12:21pm
Good Reporting, 5 points!


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Mar 29 2021 at 3:10pm
I found an Underwood WTA, serial number 2405154 on the S/N Spread Sheet. It's CMP completed auction listing #1790.

https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1790&n=M1-Carbine-Underwood-WTA-Code-Double-Stamped-SN-2405154" rel="nofollow - https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1790&n=M1-Carbine-Underwood-WTA-Code-Double-Stamped-SN-2405154

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JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Apr 19 2021 at 3:35pm
Marcus, do you still have Underwood to Winchester (W) serial number 2491972 in your collection? That's in the "Contract Terminated" range.



Edit to Add: Marcus replied with a gallery of 92 photos!

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JackP


Posted By: Connor38
Date Posted: Jun 06 2021 at 10:26pm
I just got what has so far been objectively believed to be an as issued 5.855 mil S.G. Carbine. I’ve posted on cmp and usmilitaria. I have not completely stripped it down and photographed it but I will when I’m back home. I hope what I find will help out with some of the missing data. 

Edit: well I just scanned the list again and it appears my serial number is just shy of what we’re looking for! 


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jun 06 2021 at 10:42pm
Connor,
5mil, nice! I keep missing out on one for my collection.

Any info on a possible original is good info, please do submit a datasheet.
These can be found in the forum section that says datasheets.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/data-sheets-newsletter-back-issues-indexes_forum42.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/data-sheets-newsletter-back-issues-indexes_forum42.html

There is a current thread talking about slingwell markings where your info would be appreciated. 
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/ruth-sg-stock-marked-oi-40a-found-oi-39a_topic5164.html#42481" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/ruth-sg-stock-marked-oi-40a-found-oi-39a_topic5164.html#42481


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Connor38
Date Posted: Jun 06 2021 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

Connor,
5mil, nice! I keep missing out on one for my collection.

Any info on a possible original is good info, please do submit a datasheet.
These can be found in the forum section that says datasheets.

There is a current thread talking about slingwell markings where your info would be appreciated. 

I did see that and I do recall a number in my sling well. When I’m back home, likely for 4th of July, I’ll strip her down and do a thorough analysis. 


Posted By: blackfish
Date Posted: Jun 13 2021 at 7:17am
5834657 mixmaster here, barrel appears original, proofed both by Winchester (WP) and Saginaw (P).


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jun 27 2021 at 3:54pm
My  RECEIVER IS 2491995 with an small W on rear of receiver, bought it just a reciever and I'm building a gun around it.


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jun 27 2021 at 4:46pm
Billy, you need to log in, you are posting as a guest. No way to send you info.

Is there a flaming bomb or a circle around the W?


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jun 27 2021 at 5:50pm
no bomb or circle


Posted By: Abel4287
Date Posted: Dec 02 2021 at 6:38pm
I acquired Inland 1652 from Midway USA barrel dated 6-42

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USMC 2111


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Dec 02 2021 at 7:08pm
Thanks 3 x M1 and Abel4287, but the intent of this thread is to find carbines in very specific serial # ranges where no carbines have yet been reported. See the very 1st post for these serial# ranges per manufacturer. 

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Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Dec 02 2021 at 8:09pm
That said, please do share the details on your carbines in their own threads.  I'm sure many are interested.

Marcin, In particular I'm interested whether 1847796 was used by Saginaw S.G.,  or S' G' , as well as who made the barrel and other details.      
Originally posted by 3 x M1 3 x M1 wrote:

Hi,

I've got 3 M1 Carbine.

1. Saginaw S.G no. 1847796, barrel 10-43
2. Inland no. 607364, barell 8-43. PARA version with "P" in circle on the grip.
3. Rock-Ola no. 6211959, barrel 4-45. This one is  deactivated, and it's from Italy - FAT 71.

Regards from Poland:)
Marcin


If you join the forum, then you can upload photos.  Joining is easy.


Posted By: BuyAmer1can
Date Posted: Jan 02 2022 at 10:47am
I just getting acquainted with my carbine and all the markings as well as how to navigate this forum.  But I'd like to add my serial number to the Club's data base. 
I have an Inland with a barrel date of 9/43.  It looks like a Type 1 rifle but I'm still researching.  In any case my serial number is 970253. 
If this info is supposed to be sent to a specific person please let me know. 






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Nothing from China


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 02 2022 at 10:57am
Clubs database is compromised of submitted data sheets which can be found here

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbine-club-data-sheets_topic26.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbine-club-data-sheets_topic26.html

the completed data sheet can be submitted electronically to the email address on the form or it can be snail mailed to the address in the above post.

Filing out a data sheet helps you get more acquainted with your carbine as it steers you to locations on carbines where makings or variations can be found.

I suggest keeping a copy of the DS for your records as it is handy to have a record as well as for the future should you wish to sell the carbine.


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: jjspearson
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 9:51am
I have a late Inland 6,908,236, hand stamped "M1".  Barrel date Inland 2/45.  Appears to be all original as issued in 1945.


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Jim Pearson


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 10:44am
Jim,
The list above is for serial number ranges that the club has had low or no reports.

Your carbine sounds like a very nice late Inland in the known serial number ranges.
I bet guys would love to see it.
I suggest the "Carbines of the Collector" section

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbines-of-the-collectors_forum51.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbines-of-the-collectors_forum51.html


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 11:26am
It is nice, but it's also posted on multiple sites so if anyone wants to see it...it's out there.


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

It is nice, but it's also posted on multiple sites so if anyone wants to see it...it's out there.


that may be true, but not helpful for some of our members that would like to see it but not to good with google searches.

it is more helpful to post a link
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=75901&p=512129#post512129" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=75901&p=512129#post512129

Jim, Again you are more than welcome to post your carbine on these forums as well


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 1:38pm
Also, carbines posted on these forums ("Carbines of the Collectors" and "Featured Carbines") are more likely to be included in the "Serial Number Spread Sheets", a resource for members to view reliable information about carbine date related configurations, features and history.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/m1-carbine-serial-number-spread-sheets_topic5249.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/m1-carbine-serial-number-spread-sheets_topic5249.html

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JackP


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 2:16pm
Just stating a simple fact, it's out there if anyone wants to look. As far as peeps having trouble doing Google searches, then how did they find this place?

One more thing, well over 90 percent of links posted on this site are tied to this site or the related sites up in the header. If anyone is having trouble with Google searches then this place is probably not going expand anyone's mind. Of course they are getting some pretty damn good information though.


Posted By: 9Panther
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 6:00pm
I have Rock Ola 16725xx 


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 06 2022 at 7:01pm
Thank you Panther. Your carbine is in the gap where serial numbers seemed to have been skipped. Could you post pictures showing the receivers Rock-Ola logo and and the barrels maker and date? Thank you for helping the Club update our records. It would be great if you could also provide a Data Sheet.

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JackP


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Apr 26 2022 at 6:28pm
I HAVE A UNFIRED M1 CARBINE S#XB47 NEED SOME HELP ON PLEASE CONTACT ME FOR MORE INFO THANK YOU DELUX WOOD .


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Apr 26 2022 at 6:34pm
I HAVE A M1 CARBINE S#XB47 DELUXE WOOD UNFIRED NEED SOME HELP ON FOR SALE


Posted By: Dan Pinto
Date Posted: Apr 26 2022 at 9:00pm
Tony, you are posting as a guest. You need to register for us to contact you.
You can also send an email to
SN at uscarbinecal30 dot com




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Posted By: GuapoPogi
Date Posted: Apr 28 2022 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by jjspearson jjspearson wrote:

I have a late Inland 6,908,236, hand stamped "M1".  Barrel date Inland 2/45.  Appears to be all original as issued in 1945.
 

I have a mostly mixmaster Inland, 6,897,116, 2-45, Hand Stamped M1, which I picked up off Gunbroker a few weeks ago.  It is only a few days older than yours.  I would love to see the datasheet on your carbine if you think it is original.  I want to correct my carbine but Ruth and Riesch are a bit vague and there no Carbines of the Month within 97,000 of my carbine. 

GuapoPogi


Posted By: newsman3
Date Posted: Jun 19 2022 at 2:03pm

(OSS) Office of Strategic Services Carbines

30 October 1943, 12 National Postal Meter carbines with 24 magazines were shipped from the OSS Supply Division, Washington D.C. to Lt. George Bookbinder, Room 2133 in the OSS "Q" Building Washington, D.C.

The same shipment also included:
13 M191a1 pistols with holsters, 29 magazines, 13 pistol belts, 13 M1928 double magazine pockets.
13 Thompson M1928, M2 sub machine guns, 104 magazines and 3 sets of spares.

Carbine Serial Numbers
1505587
1519675
1520545
1523234
1523414
1524000
1524096
1524276
1524376
1524457
1525843
1945011

It is unknown where these carbines went from there.

If you have one of these carbines let us know for more information!





Posted By: Vince607
Date Posted: Jun 21 2022 at 6:54pm
This is for SSNPingjockey,
STS1(SS) SSN607  and fellow carbine collector.
I was reading and saw your screen name.


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A mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it's open.



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