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High wood crack

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1258combatengineer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1258combatengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: High wood crack
    Posted: Jan 16 2021 at 10:48pm
so on my ibm stock, the high wood area is cracked, which i read is a very common problem and why carbines went to low wood
Should i try to put some wood glue on it on the inside of the stock?
Would that help to strengthen the area?
Or just leave it and hope for the best

Im hoping eventually to find a nicer ibm high wood stock and replace mine
If i can ever find one.

I dont plan on selling the rifle (knock on wood that i dont ever have to)
Thanks for any help




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 9:34am
Don't use "glue", use a good grade 2 part epoxy; it is hard to beat the Brownell's products.

If it is a really clean and tight closed crack adding some thin acrylate cement (brand like Crazy glue) is a possibility.

If the crack is bad or missing wood, epoxy is the way to go; along with repair pins- but pins take really careful installation.

Better yet, buy a shooter stock and take the high wood off if you plan to shoot it.
Don
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1258combatengineer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1258combatengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 9:41am
its a hairline crack with no wood missing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 9:43am
If the crack is "Opened" you can use thread or dental floss to pull the glue into the crack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 11:59am
From a conservators point of view the ideal adhesive will be reversible and weaker than the wood.
The goal for conservation is to stablize the crack against further weakening or loss.  The choices for a museum piece that will never or rarely be handled and used are easier than for an item that will be carried in the field and used often.

Epoxies can be made relatively flexible and be thinned somewhat for application, but this doesn't change the fact that once applied they are not removable.  Generally they are stronger than the wood and if there is a failure it will take wood fibers with it.
If you are going to use an epoxy I'm going to suggest using one that will soak into the grain enough to bond deeper than the surface.

A reversible product that is fairly strong is hide glue.  That's not practical for most people to invest in.  However there are premade hide glues available in bottles.  The bottle is warmed in a pot of hot water before use.  I've used it on furniture and would probably be my first preference on a stock crack like the one you describe.  Dan's suggestion is good, and or might be possible to apply it with a syringe. 



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 3:41pm
My Tip: Is knowing ahead of the repair how and where your clamps need to be located.

Pictures of the Crack will help to decide which fix method to use.
Be prepared for many opinions. More than 1 way to skin a cat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1258combatengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 9:47pm
thanks all
Here are some photos.
The stock is in such rough shape, rough
100% worse than the rockola i have.  But o well, gun parts are all original that i can determine and thats fine with me.
Beat, dents all throughout cant find any marks, looks like it has a burn mark, make a cig burn, lol
Im hoping someone may have a high wood ibm to sell me someday
If yall find a pretty good one, can yall let me know?
I surely appreciate it


20210117-214226

20210117-214258

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 10:05pm
I have used Gorilla glue for stock repairs 3 or 4 years now and I think it does an excellent job. I have some small material syringes to apply, for thin cracks heat the glue bottle in hot water to thin. Clean crack with acetone, moisten crack with water prior to glue. Use aluminum strips from a pop can, floss, or suction to work glue in the crack. Have a clamping strategy planned shouldn't be difficult for this one, use wax paper when clamping. Glue that bubbles out can just be carefully scraped off. The glue takes stain and blends in well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1258combatengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 10:57pm
its a tight crack, the tin can option might work.
Ill try that. I have a modeling syringe for glue. 
What clamps do yall use? Or recommend?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2021 at 11:13pm
I use a variety of clamps; small pony screw clamps, quick grip bar clamps, spring clamps. You can probably block/shim this one from the inside of the stock and use a screw or bar clamp on the outside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 9:12am
Haven't had good results with Super Glue type adhesives. Apply a little pressure to the repaired high wood area and it cracks again in the same spot. Not very good except for display pieces. All my repairs were cleaned repeatedly with acetone. One stock had a repair behind the recoil with SG. First outing shooting it the glue let loose right in the crack.
Frank D said he's used it and recommended it, but it didn't work well for me.

Use it to repair gouges in guitar clear coating finishes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 3:28pm
I've found the small tight space copper pipe cutters come in handy when the repair calls for pressure to be applied from the inside- outward. You can just dial in the amount of movement/pressure you need and it will stay in place while you apply the clamps.

While wasting time trying to shim in a wood spacer one day I noticed my mini cutter and tried it.
I Use it turned up side down with the flat side against the piece that needs the outward push.
Being up side down the cranking wheel will set above the right wood rail.




Filling Splits and Grain Checks,
I've been using a Polyester Resin that I tint with Acrylic Pigment to match between the stocks darkest and lightest grain color.... Shooting for the middle. If you use Polyester resin without some type of tinting it will dry to a Glossy sheen. Using Acrylic pigment will reduce the sheen down to more of a Matte look. Polyester because it seeps in better than Epoxy resin.
Wax paper taped over the crack will limit any mess. You just Inject thru the tape.

For Tints, You can use something as simple as water color kids paints, to Latex Acrylic house paint, even food coloring, or regular paint tints. You may want to intermix a couple tints to get the hue you want. Either Resin will take just a bit of Tint... it goes a long way. Best to make up a small portion and test your mixed tint and Resin on a scrap to see if you've got the color you want. Copy or adjust as needed.

For Bonding Strength,
Use a Epoxy Resin, it can also be tinted. But it is a thicker resin.

For either Resin I can use (when needed) hypodermic needles. I don't recall the size but the smaller sizes for Polyester, larger for Epoxy resin. I use Lacquer thinner and draw it up and out of the needle several times and finish up by using fresh Lacquer thinner for the final clean out. I can get 3-4 uses out of the syringe before the Plunger rots away from the resins/thinners.  

FWIW,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

I've found the small tight space copper pipe cutters come in handy when the repair calls for pressure to be applied from the inside- outward. You can just dial in the amount of movement/pressure you need and it will stay in place while you apply the clamps.

While wasting time trying to shim in a wood spacer one day I noticed my mini cutter and tried it.
I Use it turned up side down with the flat side against the piece that needs the outward push.
Being up side down the cranking wheel will set above the right wood rail.


You got a pic of that in practice?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 7:13pm
A retailer with a good selection of glues, tints and dyes is Highland Hardware Woodworking in Ga.
Pretty sure thats where I bought the "Old Brown Glue" mentioned above. They also have resin glues and much more.
The liquid epoxies I use (US Composites - similar to West system) are thinned with alcohol or acetone.  Very little is needed to thin them.  The slower setting hardners are thinner to begin with and result in a little more flexible but slightly weaker product when set.  Whatever is being used, its good to check with the manufacturer for guidance when not sure of the thinner or cleanup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1258combatengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 9:04pm
thank you all for the info!
It is greatly appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by tenOCEE tenOCEE wrote:

 

You got a pic of that in practice?
 
@Ten,
No I don't.
Just flip the tool upside down and stick it inside the stock with the knob above the wood rail and the flat edge (now below the knob) of the tool against the wood. Twist the knob to spread it open, this puts pressure against the inside of the stock. When finished just back it off.

I started looking for a nut and bolt that would just fit inside, thinking I'd back the nut off enough to push against the side I needed pressure on when I seen the Mini Cutter in the tool box. It really works.

Wait....... You messing with me ?
Am I gonna have to call Dog Pee Lady to hit your yard ornaments again ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2021 at 11:44pm
Gonna have to dink around with tubing cutter. Think I'm getting the image.

You remember Dog Pee Woman? LOL That's funny. I keep an eye on her when she comes down the road. She's pretty adept at quickly placing the plastic grocery bag under her dog's rear end before he makes a deposit. That Juniper he lifted his leg on is about dead from a fungus these days.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2021 at 10:52am
Junipers and lib trees are the bane of civilization's existence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2021 at 11:08am
How it's supposed to look below. Imagine it mostly brown now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 68coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2021 at 7:15pm
Please send "Dog pee lady" my way. I have a pair of junipers on either side of the end of my driveway that my beloved won't let me get rid of. THEY are the bane of my existence.

On a carbine note, the compensator/muzzle brake, as listed on Numrich, worked pretty well. I'd give it a 7 out of 10, for effectiveness and value.

1 third note. I knew a Charlie Painter (SSGT USMC) when I was at NATTC Memphis/Pensacola. Could that be you?
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