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Front Sight Pin Removal (I WISH)

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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Front Sight Pin Removal (I WISH)
    Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 4:22pm
I have decided to take the advice of some forum members and do some upgrades to my "shooter" inland. My inland was from the Midway batch. It came with the adjustable rear sights, but has the type one Inland barrel band. The rest of the firearm is a mix of Winchester and IBM parts. I have since acquired finer examples (more collectable, not import marked, not Mixmaster's, etc) and want to have a "truck gun" or a "beater". It is a great shooter as is, but the handguard becoming loose is something I would like to address on my shooter. 

The update I am wanting to do is changing out the type 1 barrel band(yes, I know these are more sought after by collectors) with a type 3 band with the bayonet lug. 

I already have the type 3 barrel band, front sight removal and install tool. 

However, the front sight pin will not budge. I mean no matter what I smack it with. I have soaked it for days in WD-40. Tried hitting it from both sides. I even did an Indian rain dance and nothing. You name it, I think I have tried it. (other than heating it with torches, which is something I would like to avoid)

I do not think it has EVER been removed, even though I imagine it was updated before being sent to Italy which is what I understand to have happened with the Midway Imports.  Maybe the reason it still had the type 1 band after going through refurb is that they couldn't even get the sight off them selves LOL

If anyone has any ideas, let me know. I have asked a couple of members privately, but would like to know if any one else has had this issue who maybe I haven't asked, and if so, what did you do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 5:02pm
Soak it in Kroil not WD40. Maybe try to find someone that has the Matrix front sight pin removal tool that is close to you. 
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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 5:18pm
Alright, I will get some Kroil Ordered. And I know a fellow who is close and has the pin removal, but we were unsure if it would be able to do the job without it being broke in the process. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 5:47pm
Reb’s right. Me (his neighbor…almost) has the Matrix tool. I shattered the push-pin in that tool pushing out a hard pin. When I contacted Matrix for the part, they were able to find me one, but informed me that tool had been discontinued. If Rebel can’t get that pin out with a hammer-pounding, I think all we would do is bust another pin. I just use the tool as a convenience. If the pin doesn’t act like it wants to move, I go for the punch. That is the second Matrix tool that did not hold up and they were not too generous in making either one right either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 6:09pm
Yes Roger, I can see the pin on the tool being a weak point, I have only used mine a few times and it worked well. I did buy a couple of extra pins for mine when I bought it just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Yes Roger, I can see the pin on the tool being a weak point, I have only used mine a few times and it worked well. I did buy a couple of extra pins for mine when I bought it just in case.

You did well young Skywalker. 

I should have tried to get an extra when I got mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 9:20pm
I've been able to get some tight ones out, use a good pin punch (mine is a snap-on 3/32), I have a cheaper set that will flex/bend - not good for this activity. I put the sight on its side against a hardwood block on the concrete floor before applying the punch. You don't want any bounce on the punch, even the slightest. Few years back I bought a used Inland barrel assembly cheap, really bought it for the type 1 band as the barrel had pitting. The pin on that sight required some heavy blows before it gave way and I was able to remove the sight and band. As it turned out, I wished I'd just left the whole thing intact as a fellow collector later helped me use the barrel assembly and get it properly headspaced and it ended up shooting extremely well despite the pitting. There's not much that would convince me to remove a sight installed at the factory these days.

Edited by GotSnlB28 - Feb 14 2022 at 9:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quietus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2022 at 10:03pm
Me, I'm not too concerned about the low heat put out by a conventional propane shop torch.  Degrease the sight very well, first.  Low heat can be real effective.  In your case, you're expanding the front sight from around its retaining pin.  

On fragile pin punches:   I've saved every pin punch that I've broke.  And I've dressed up the tips on some of them to make one-of tools.  A real short stub of a punch will make quick work of that stuck pin.  Especially with a touch of heat prior.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 17 2022 at 2:48pm
I've cut down a few pin punches to just about 1/10 inch just for starting a pin moving. Once you get the end past the staking the rest is relatively easy. A very short punch is less likely to bend or break and is much more effective in getting a pin moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 17 2022 at 4:43pm
Let me throw this out there.  How direct and solid is the support on the other side of the sight?
Is there any bouncing or motion?  
The one I did came out easily, but thinking it might not I drilled a block of wood, then cut it in half and shaped it support the barrel and sight. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 17 2022 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

Let me throw this out there.  How direct and solid is the support on the other side of the sight?
Is there any bouncing or motion?  
The one I did came out easily, but thinking it might not I drilled a block of wood, then cut it in half and shaped it support the barrel and sight. 


I had it in my gun vice, and may have bounced a little. But I also tried it on a piece of scrap wood, and still nothing. 

The gun in question was a Midway Import, and has the updated rear sight, but still had the type 1 barrel band. Barrel is dated november 43, so the sight isnt original. I wonder if it still has the early type barrel band because they couldnt get the sight off when it was refurbished LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 17 2022 at 9:35pm
get you a dremel tool or be real carefull with a hacksaw and cut along the post with the keyway-with pin in you need to cut both sides-get cut to keyway and then use chisel to pop and spread--you won't mess your barrel up this way--right now am guessing your sight is toast anyhow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 18 2022 at 12:24pm
Marcus,
I had to cut a milled one off just as you describe.
To be safe I wrapped the barrel behind and in front of the sight with black tape.
Then put a small hose clamp over the tape to guard against the cutting wheel getting away from me.... Which it did, but the clamps protected the barrel finish.
Once cut just deep enough, I bent the side guards outward and grabbed the sight blade with vice grips and wiggled it from side to side until it snapped.

In fact I think it was a Email between us when you mentioned the Dremel to me.

I currently have a Fake S'G' rear sight I think I'm gonna have to do the same too, to replace it with the real one I got from Mortar Doctor. Dovetails rightside top corners are so peened over I'm worried about breaking them off if I try to knock the Base out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 18 2022 at 8:31pm
great advice on hose clamp and tape--take the leaf and spring out before u cut rear--I have done a couple that way over the years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 18 2022 at 9:06pm
Drill the pin out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 18 2022 at 10:10pm
better learn to drink a lot-pin is hard and sight is soft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 19 2022 at 9:22am
my .02 (might be .04 now?), it will come out with a punch if you hit it hard enough on a solid surface like a hardwood block against concrete. It's a good suggestion to use a short punch. You may need an extra set of hands to steady the action on the block while you align the punch for a good solid hit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 19 2022 at 9:52am
My .03 cents
If the front sight tool has a replaceable pin that breaks, it is too hard!
You may be able to find an undersized hardened pin at places like the hardware store and online (McMaster Carr)

Use penetrating oil and then put the tool on it and crank till tight. Wait a few hours or a day and try to tighten a little more. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The constant pressure may start moving the pin, and once it does it should go from there. If it gets tight again, push the pin form the other side and repeat till it moves easy enough.

Another method would be to put the tool on and apply pressure. The with everything well supported give a few love taps to the shaft of the tool. the pressure with the shock may move it. Use a soft hammer (brass, lead, etc)

DISCLAIMER: I have seen the aluminum tool used to push the pins. The aluminum may fracture or the threads may pull out with too much pressure. Try the above at your own risk of the tool getting damaged.

A machine shop may be able to block the sight up and push it out with an arbor press as well.

Best of luck!
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